Border Patrol Deployments vs DEA Deployments?

Greetings,

I have just finished my enlistment in the military and have initiated the hiring process for a position with Border Patrol. However, I have also submitted an application for the DEA (just to keep my options open).

After completing the mandatory minimum probationary requirements, I would like to join a special program. However, I have specific doubts.

I am trying to compare how independent in nature of the missions are between BORTAC and DEA's FAST operators. My biggest concern is that I will join a federal law enforcement special program and end up supporting and providing security areas for the military; i.e. check point sentry, vehicle inspector, base security rover, etc. During ops in Yemen, our mission was interrupted and we ended up babysitting military personnel and federal agents in an environment/situation which they should have been able to handle. I understand that a mission is a mission and orders are to be carried out, but seriously; you don't use Stinger SAMs to swat a fly. Overkill right?

I'm just saying I don't want to join a federal law enforcement community's special operations unit, receive specialized training to perform specific jobs, and end up filling the role that can be easily handled by non special operations personnel.

Also cross pollination seems to be common among SPECOPS. For instance it looks like BORTAC can handle narcotics operations as well as counter terrorism. I was wondering if someone could accurately compare and contrast the missions between BORTAC and FAST operations and how often they deploy and operate OCNUS.

Any and all guidance will be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Whitebeebo

I know I'm going to come off sounding like a dick (again), but I do have a couple of thoughts...

1) Every job, no matter how HS, has some scut work involved. All the things you listed, plus more mudane tasks like PMing vehicles, picking up brass on the range, etc, may not be sexy but they have to be done. Do you expect non-HS personnel to come in and do all the work you consider beneath you?

2) I would be more concerned at this point in your career efforts about making the cut than I would about if I would be employed in accordance with my beliefs of superiority over other, lesser agents.

3) A lot of the "non-SO" stuff performed by HS units is done to keep their people busy, trained, and part of the fight. If they weren't taking part in those efforts, they'd be back in the office getting rusty and dull.

Maybe it's just your presentation, but you come off as someone who already considers themselves special...

As 0699 said, you should concentrate on being a good officer first and foremost. If I had 10c for everyone who came in and expected to go to investigations or where ever straight away I'd be a rich man.

The "non-special" stuff is the bread and butter.

This has been quite restrained, your post makes me a little angry.

Hi Stephen,

Good luck on your new career. Your chances of getting into Border Patrol are much better than DEA. However, BP is a good stepping stone for DEA. It's not a sure thing, believe me, but it helps. BP and DEA are roughly comparable in pay and benefits. DEA is a full time lifestyle. It is who you are, especially for the guys who work undercover at all, but even the others. BP is more of a uniformed police job where you spend 50 hours a week and leave it when you're off. DEA has more interesting investigations. BP has more action. BP catches tons of drugs and hands it over to DEA for processing, which DEA agents hate (all the paperwork, none of the action).

Some BP agents who left for DEA expressed some dissatisfaction with the change. One returned to the BP, but that is very rare.

I'm somewhat familiar with BORTAC, but not so much DEA's various specialized units. Suffice to say, getting into BORTAC is difficult. Having a military special ops background may help in some regards (fitness, toughness), but hurt in others (arrogance, attitude).

BORTAC has various assignments domestically and overseas that may appeal to you or not. Some may very well be beneath you and your training and abilities. That's typical of most anywhere you go in government, though. Remember, you aren't getting paid to have fun, you're getting paid to follow orders. That means a lot of mundane or undesirable tasks. Just ask Secret Service Agents about their duties versus their qualifications. It's depressing.

A consistent theme of BORTAC'ers is they feel their skills and abilities are not used. I get this from them directly, as well as second hand. Guarding a gate or checkpoint is something they have had to do on occasion, but so have I and I graduated the University of California. But as a federal agent, especially a senior agent, you'll be the highest paid security guard in the country. Same for U.S. Marshals and Secret Service Special Agents.

For deployment, my limited understanding is that BORTAC'ers can stay local to their home areas (sectors), or deploy to other areas of the U.S/territories, or go overseas voluntarily. I read there is some pressure on DEA agents to deploy to Afghanistan.

Anyway, the worst that can happen is you join BORTAC and decide you don't like it and go on to something else. Lots of BORTAC'ers went to BORSTAR during that unit's standup, others have gone to ICE, Air Marshals and JTTF.

I'm of the same mindset as some others before me.

I would humble myself rather quickly before you even get a foot in ANY door in LE, only to wind up having it shoved back down your throat and you choke on it.

Just an observation. YMMV.

It seems to me that the OP and Xray are fuller of themselves than any natural person ought to be.

Share a nice, warm slice of humble pie and consider for a moment that no one (particularly no one here) cares that you think your accomplishments in the military or academia place you above the teeming masses of less capable men.

I know this board likes to have the attitude of humble pie gobbling contest, but as a former BPA and current fed LE, I can attest, dont let their nay saying get you down.

Border Patrol has lots of action mixed with the long hours of boredom and the endless watching of the same people day after day, it is great experience, you will be sought after by other agencies if you have a degree matched with BP experience, I will vouch for that myself.

I will say their BORTAC program is incredible, realise that BP is approximately 80%+ former military so dont think its a shoo-in for former military though, I have seen former force recon and rangers not make it through BORTAC school and that is common. As far as Im aware, it is the toughest fed LE academy out there physically. They do alot of high speed stuff and are rarely overseas (but they do go). One was just killed in action with smugglers for the record, they have many more shootouts than FAST does. I believe BP has the highest shooting incident percentage of any agency as well (DEA included). With the increase in Mexico fun, expect much more BORTAC operating as "instructors" inside of Mexico.

DEA fast teams are more of a seniority deal, expect to do a fair number of years before being applicable, although you will go overseas more than BORTAC. BORTAC has only a 2 years req before applying whereas I have heard "unofficially" that 8 is typical for FAST.

If you want overseas, I would say DSS MSD(mobile security deployment), they are overseas in the shit for most of the year and take home a fat check because of it. And you can go in them right out of the academy. Expect to max your fed salary really quick with them and get to know and love the news, to find out where you are going next (Libya, Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt--- up next Syria!)

my .02 cents

Thanks for the info Sirbood, X-Ray, and 0699 (0699-yup, presentation could have used a little work). I'm not too concerned about having a slice of humble pie as much as knowing what I am getting into in respect to a career. I can see how my initial post could be received negatively. Not being specific made it very easy to perceive that I had a lofty stance over the necessary tasks accomplished by other personnel. That's my fault. However, the point that was to be made wasn't predicated on the feelings of "superiority" in the midst of "lesser agents" or other LE personnel; but rather on wasted resources.

Sirblood- I have been picking up on Spanish through Rosetta Stone. I am hoping that I can get a decent foundation in basic Spanish prior to the BP academy. I am working on a dual major Bachelor's in Law Enforcement Admin. and Crisis Management/Homeland Security. I tried to find a degree program that would cover the largest variety careers and hope these will be competitive enough to satisfy an employer. Are there more competitive degree fields that I should invest in? I am still in the position to change majors if I have to. If I get the job offer, should I place school on hold until I graduate from the academy? Is there anything else that I need to do in order to prepair for training?

X-Ray- I took your advice and started asking around (a VA Police Officer, Secret Service Uniformed Officer, and a Special Agent). The Special Agent did complain about the monotony, but also said he loved his job because of this. I also learned that I'd better get used to doing things that sometimes doesn't make sense. You are dead on in regards to being paid to take orders Vs. having fun. I had to reevaluate and define why the my selected programs appealed to me. FBI and DEA recruiters say they have a lot of former BP personnel within their ranks and they bring solid skills to the table. DEA seems to require a very demanding and constant level of committment (especially undercover fields). The idea of leaving work at work is very appealing. I never heard of DSS MSD before until you brought it to my attention. I know that the Navy/Marine Corps have a similar physical security detail, but I never knew the Federal Government had their own. It really looks interesting, but the hiring process seems to be a strictly no nonsense evolution (training too for that matter). I don't feel I have enough experience/education for DSS MSD just yet, but it seems to be a great goal to strive for.

BP seems to be a great stepping stone as well as an awesome career to retire from. As always, further guidance will be appreciated.

Thanks for the advice and info! I'm looking forward to the next steps.

R/

Stephen

Stephen,

To be honest, I was in your very similar shoes not too long ago, I had an active DEA application get accepted while I was at BP academy, dont hold your breath on it though, mine finally officially came through 2 years later, only for me to turn them down for another agency. Take whichever is first offered to you to get that proverbial foot in the door. IMHO, dont tell anyone about your plans as no one wants to feel as though their agency is a stepping stone but it isnt that, it is the fact that some agency's work doesnt gel with everyones personality and you have to find what you enjoy.

In regards to finishing college or taking, I will give you my experience, which isnt 100% going to happen to everyone. I was first offered a BP slot one semester from college graduation (back then, hiring took 2 years), since they werent willing to wait, I turned them down(really tough as everyone told me not to) as I really wanted a degree in case I ever wanted to hop to Special Agent. Six months later, they called me again and asked if I was still interested, I said yes, but since I was a college grad, wanted to be considered as a GS-7. I went through more waiting and finally got in to a station I really wanted to be in. A brutally tough academy and work experiences I will never forget, some of the hardest people I know do that job. I still remember chasing aliens 10+ miles in 120 degree heat and running out of 2 FULL 72 oz camelbacks of water, only to not catch a damn thing.

Fast forward a couple years and I applied to 2 other agencies because I had a taste of investigations in BP's intelligence unit and wanted to do it full time. An offer was dropped from my first choice agency, but they said my academy date was the same day as a scheduled raise I was due for in BP. I weighed the pros and cons and declined, only to receive another class at the increased pay step 3 weeks later.

Again, my story, like yours will be, is unique and has had a lot of growth and experience gained. in regards to your degree choice, that all sits upon what you consider your dream job. Languages are gold, but I will say Rosetta leaves a lot to be desired. I wanted to work overseas so I hit languages and politics very hard and now that is what I work.

Sirblood,

Actually, I was hoping BP would take a very long time processing my application. With hard work, my dual major can be achieved within a year. ALSO, I would like to square away a few financial obligations. I've heard background investigations are a case-by-case basis and the current econmical situation is rough; but I really don't want to leave anything open for clarification. Actually, just for that reason; I am relocating back to an area where BAH pays the highest so financial loose ends can be easily mopped up (I might have to hold off on closing the deal with which caliber I want for my Savage 110 BA; .300 wnmg or .388 lapua). If one held a former secret or TS/SCI clearance in the service, then would that carry any weight or credit in future background checks?

Languages and politics. I have strengths in languages but never studied politics before (though interesting). Would it make better sense if I pursued a Master's program in political science in addition to my current Bachelor's majors? Shadowspear got my attention because I had intentions in contacting a few people who are either holding desirable and sought after professions or can shed light on opportunities that I was unaware of. I was confident in having good handle on what my dream job would be until more opportunities were brought to my attention. However, achieving these goals are going to require a lot of dedicated work.

Thanks again,

Stephen

I'm curious as to why having a degree from U of C puts you above pulling security on a gate or checkpoint....

IME, they'll acknowledge your current clearance, but they'll also do their own investigation on you. Having a DOD clearance will not give you a leg up on the competition, all it really does is let your future agency know you are "clearable".

It seems like my TAPS class is dishing out the wrong info. No wonder they often ask for feedback and updates.

Thanks for the heads up 0699.

All that qualifies you to do is attend DNC rallies and eat a meat free diet, whether or not that applies to you is another issue. What about the 36 year old max applicant age? I noticed you said "completed your enlistment" and not retired, what's your military experience, if you don't mind me asking.

Sirblood said, "One was just killed in action with smugglers for the record, they have many more shootouts than FAST does. I believe BP has the highest shooting incident percentage of any agency as well (DEA included). With the increase in Mexico fun, expect much more BORTAC operating as "instructors" inside of Mexico.

DEA fast teams are more of a seniority deal, expect to do a fair number of years before being applicable, although you will go overseas more than BORTAC. BORTAC has only a 2 years req before applying whereas I have heard "unofficially" that 8 is typical for FAST."

Whitebeebo, I just want to correct some of the assumptions being made by some folks here regarding DEA FAST. I, like 0699, make these comments at risk of coming off sounding like a dick. I see that this post has been viewed over 1,500 times and want to answer your question and properly represent those who are doing the work. I know virtually nothing about BORTAC so I won't go out on a limb and make ridiculous assumptions and comparisons like Sirblood has as quoted above. Not sure how anyone would be able to gather enough open source data on either unit to make even a half assed attempt to compare shooting incidents? And if the data is not open source then it should not be posted here.

DEA FAST has nothing to do with an agent's seniority. Sending agents overseas to conduct joint operations with some of the most respected operators in the world would kill any program before it got off the ground. Those operators would refuse to work with a bunch of hacks who show up just because they have been collecting a pay check longer than some other more dedicated/qualified candidate. I know guys on FAST who have done less than two years on the street and moved to FAST. I also know guys who have jumped over after seven years and in that time conducted undercover operations, complex conspiracy cases, wire intercepts and major financial investigations. All of these aspects of the job are equally important in the over all DEA mission of targeting, dismantling and prosecuting the largest drug trafficking organizations in the world and regional and local impact cases. It takes a real A-hole to think his/her one cog in the machine makes him/her better than the other cogs. It's one machine, one team, one mission. It is toxic to any team when an individual chooses to put themselves above the group. I only mention this because there are only two kinds of folks who would decide what to do based on a comparison of shooting incidents.

1). A thoughtful quiet professional who understands his/her mortality may consider this as one of many factors when making a career decision.
2). Then you have the A-hole who thinks the mission IS to get into shit so they can brag to friends and family about it. This kind clearly think they are (their ego is) the mission.

I can say from first hand experience that almost all of the DEA FAST guys are the first of the two types, the quiet professional, team player type. That does not mean they shrink in the face of danger. They are conscious that defensive direct action is a very real aspect of team membership. A couple A-holes make it through in every "special team" no matter what agency you are talking about but for the most part they don't last long as team dynamics usually weed them out.

I will say that both DEA FAST and BORTAC would be an honorable way for you to provide for your family and continue serving our country. For more insight into FAST you can read a NYT article from Nov. 6th, 2011.

Look at what the missions of each agency are. I cannot speak for BORTAC but you won’t make a career out of FAST. Make sure the mission appeals to you and you will be happy no matter what role you fill to that end. You are potentially looking at a 20-25 year commitment. And be careful whose advice you take, including mine. Again Sirblood refers to the 40,000 people dead in Mexico as “Mexico Fun”? What and bucking fouche dag! I know HSI and DEA who live and work there, it ain’t “Mexico Fun” but thank God they are willing to execute the mission there with the few counterparts they can trust. I wish you good luck in the decision and application process and a fulfilling, safe career no matter what you choose or what role you play.

Goddamn man. This board really flares up my genital herpes sometimes.

CDG and Policemedic - sometimes you guys just have to be more respectful to people. Regardless of what their fucking post counts are.

I absolutely understand why X-ray would mention the gate security and U of C correlation. It's nothing he should be criticized for. A big term I took out of this conversationw as "duties vs credentials" (ie. the Secret Service example). As a former SOF veteran and a college grad I damn fuck goddamn cunt better shit asshole vagina will be PISSED if I got stuck on assignments guarding a check point/security gate as a FLE officer when I know damn well they can find somebody else to do it. NOTHING in this world pisses me off more then being UNDERUTILIZED. NOTHING!!!

Im curious as to why you think it wouldnt put him above it? As a senior agent in a FLE Im pretty sure he shouldnt be doing that. Every single one of us - myself included would feel underutilized and entitled to more after almost a decade of of proving yourself in the military and academia.

Lets all respect the fuck up and be very fucking thankful that people like X-Ray visit this board and provide us with what to me is an incredible source of knowledge into the federal LE world.

For those who have been constructive, thanks for your posts! I've gotten to see a lot of angles and perspectives on different options which I otherwise wouldnt have.

I just passed my interview (border patrol). The interviewers were very pleased, but I had a serious reality check from some of the questions that were asked. A lot of the questions required me to detach from my military instincts/training and solve problems in a different way. Im not sure if that best describes what I am trying to say, but I feel lucky to have gotten through the interview. I'm probably a lot harder on myself then the interviewing officers were. Physical Fitness screening is a complete joke. BUT if it's like any other entry level screening that's a prerequisite to any training school then I will not use the Physical Fitness Screening as the baseline for what is yet to come. Oh, I still have to do the 1.5 mile run. I'm not too worried about that either. I am concerned that I am so close to getting my college degree. I am not sure if i want to wait until I get my degree(s) or jump into this job. In 4 years I can have my master's. Is anyone here currently in B.P., DEA, or any other fed. law enforcement and currently in school?

LOL dknob... Thank's for your post. Do you work in a position that directly relates to your degree? What degree do you have? I am working on a LE Administration and Crisis Management Homeland Security bachelor's. I am thinking about a master's in Counter Terrorism, but that's sounds VERY limited and since it's a new degree field (I think), I am not sure how well received it is with employers.

I'm just here to stir shit up. OCCUPY SHADOWSPEAR!!

But joking aside - I graduated last December with a BA in Political Science (International Track) and a minor in Middle Eastern Studies from UCF. I don't work in a related field - I'm currently in pharmaceuticals and am looking to go back into the military via the National Guard SF route (20th SFG is an earshot away).

I don't recommend niched digrees like Counter Terrorism unless your time in service was in some serious big boy intel units or SOF units to complement the degree.