Case Study #3: Rules of Engagement

Detain. Citizens arrest.

The rules changed guys....he has AQ propaganda on his person and PID'ed.....

Here:

These soldiers have a 'responsibility' to detain this guy.

:2c:

A citizens arrest? I'm not sure about the US law but here you cannot arrest on suspicion. Bad ju ju if you do.

Excellent, Razor! Thanks.
Positive ID as alQuaida...DETAIN. Not as a citizens arrest, but under authority of detaining an enemy combatant on American Soil under the Patriot Act.
Hand over to FBI, or perhaps better to call your CO, hand over to your own Military Intelligence, and let them be involved with the FBI.

My question is this: What are the MOS of myself and my buddies. Am I trained in Counter Intelligence such that it would be appropriate to follow, investigate, and report? Even so, if I had been drinking it would probably be more appropriate to go ahead and detain, and let the "big boys" decide how they want to play/flip him, if at all.
My job is to NOT let a confirmed PID alQuaida terrorist get away completely.

Agreed! I just wonder if it might be better to call your CO and try to get your own Intel folks involved, and let THEM detain him further, and THEY deal with the FBI (or local cops). Maybe call the CO (or 1st SGT?) and let HIM make the further decision? If I do detain him, where do I do this? Am I going to bring him back in the bar? Take him to the base? Police station?

I think I want my Intel guys ASAP! Then let them make the decisions regarding him as an "enemy combatant", especially since I "detained" him under "military authority" on a "Positive ID"("enemy combatant" as per RB's post). I want my "chain of command" to back me up ASAP! I think I'm taking him to the base in the first non-arab driven cab my buddy can flag down, and calling the 1st SGT to meet me with some intel guys at the gate. They can decide how to proceed from there. Positive ID, and all.

You'll be running into all sorts of illegal detention laws if you restrain this guy. I do not see our military authority on this soil without some higherup approval to act accordingly. Short of landing yourself in jail, its best to call the police, keep a safe distance while maintaining SA on this guy.

Yeah, it's called the Posse Comitatus Act. That's exactly how the ACLU would drive the wedge while defending the guy, if any Service Member "apprehended" him on U.S. soil. Don't know if they'd win (prolly so, since it's old, pretty much inviolable federal law), but the litigation would be long, painful and expensive - for some loud talking asshole at closing time?

Exactly! I would also add that the soldiers have been drinking... making the situation much more susceptable to scrutiny.

I'd laugh at him and try to find somewhere else to continue drinking.

He's probably (99.9999%) a poser; to a certain element of society being "AQ" is cool, just like being a "SEAL", "SF", or "Recon" is cool in other communities.

I've been drinking.
My friends have been drinking.
Nothing good will come out of trying to detain him.
As a member of the military I have no authority on US soil unless specifically directed otherwise by my COC.

Plus, laughing at him will piss him off. If he gets pissed enough to swing, THEN I call the cops & swear out a warrant for assault against him. :)

I take my original statements back. I would call the CIA instead of the FBI. That should do the trick.

Are you trying for cross=thread points?;)

hahaha. If we can expedite his departure out of the country before Jan 20th that terrorist should be good to go.

Do we automatically consider alQuieda as "enemy combatants" ?

So, is he a Positively Identified "enemy combatant" or not?

Check out Razor Bagdad's link, (which appears to base the situation similar to the Nazi Saboteurs)...and it would seem to me that I can detain him (even as a citizen), and turn him over to Military Intelligence or FBI, who will then work with the the Attorney General to eventually get him (back to Military Jurisdiction?) to a Military Tribunal, correct?

But, right now he's standing on the curb, so immediate action is needed.

One way or the other I'm NOT (even as a citizen) letting a confirmed PID alQuaida terrorist get away completely.
Detain, or Follow? I'm doing ONE of them.

I'm POSITIVE that I have the obligation to at least apprehend this guy.

Following him is more risky than just detaining him, because you risk losing him completely.
You have to detain him somehow.








Here's the interesting related Nazi Saboteur history link:
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/nazi/nazi.htm

Original post states that as part of the scenario. "so you have the obligation to at least apprehend this guy."

The only sure way to NOT lose him is to take him from the curb.
Even following him you have the chance to lose him. If he pays cash(of course with a cab), the FBI will have a "drop location" and a "description"...so he could be gone unless you stay in physical contact. Rather than get in his cab, or try to follow and risk losing him, I think we take him. We have to. Detain him in the bar kitchen, call the First Sgt!

The minute he asks if you are soldiers, and because he is a PID enemy combatant, he made this a military matter. Hope the First Sgt isn't to pissed when he shows up with the intel guys. What's the RIGHT answer Marauder?

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that's the friend's opinion, not a stiplated fact.

I have to grab him (now) or risk losing him. Obligation to at least apprehend!

Good point, unclear to me (not in quotes, but seperated from the statement only by a comma).
Marauder, is that Obligation from you as a scenario "given", or just the words of the drunken friend?

Actually, it doesn't really matter. I DO have "moral" obligation to grab him. (enemy combatant, assaulting soldiers, etc.)

I have to grab him (now) or risk losing him.
Freakin got the "moral" obligation to grab him, even if the "legal" part screws me.
That's why I'm calling First Sgt, and my intel guys, they'll call FBI (JAG?), or advise.
He's going in the system.

Save every bit of evidence including the spit.