I had heard of using moss (if nothing else was available) to treat water before drinking, but I hadn't heard about the wound treatment. I looked the subject up and it seems wound treatment goes back a long time. It's the Sphagnum moss that is discussed mostly. Wikipedia has most of the information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphagnum Good info, thanks.
If you use H2O2 to clean a wound, dilute it with 50% clean or sterile water. There are a lot of jungle medicine ways to stop bleeding... If you are really worried about being able to survive after the coming apocalypse... get the FoxFire bOOks ( a series - and expensive - but excellent Appalachian 'do anything' advice). Stump water is good for a drying agent - the tannic acid is astringent and antiseptic... And yes... rubbing dirt in a wound can help (kaolin clay actually) control bleeding
Hydrogen Peroxide is a shitty cleaner when it comes to killing bacteria, I read a study from the AMA that stated the only beneficial thing the peroxide did was to dilute the bacteria, something tap water would have done just as effectively. If I can find the article again, I'll post it. In the meantime... http://www.mercer.edu/camps/message/summer2001/summer2001-disinfectant.htm OK, I didn't find the exact article but this is almost word for word what I remember: The source for this is: Rodeheaver GT. Wound cleansing, wound irrigation, wound disinfection. In: Krasner D, Kane D. Chronic Wound Care: A Clinical Source Book for Healthcare Professionals, Second Edition. Wayne, PA: Health Management Publications, Inc., 1997:97-108. Got this from this article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/456300_3
Don't know - my medical knowledge is limited to very basic wilderness first aid training, and the instructor who told me about the plant may not have had much more first-hand experience than me. I'm glad I had a chance to check the accuracy of the information before I passed it on to the kids, though, and the info about the moss is wonderful. Thanks, guys.
Question regarding bleeding; "In the old days" most (real) men carried styptic pencils in their shaving kit to stop minor bleeding from razor cuts. It was common practice for old time butchers to immediately jam coarse salt in their wounds when they cut themselves. They said it stopped the bleeding and the salt worked as an antiseptic. I've used sea water to wash out all sorts of wounds and all of them healed nicely with no infections. But I've never run into any training that would suggest using salt on wounds. Besides the obvious pain issue of 'rubbing salt into a wound', does anyone have any insights as to why the use of salt is absent from most wound treatment protocols today?
I found this, can't verify the accuracy of it though... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6869.0;prev_next=next
@Pardus - good post on H2O2... It is really only good for the mechanical cleansing of a wound... the reason for diluting it is for cost effectiveness.
Jeez I know that this is an old post, but just thought I would inject some life into it!! Dirty & contaminated wound.......why not use Hydrogen Peroxide 3% or 6%: I know it has had some bad press in the recent past, and I think that if you leave it on the wound it does produce problems. However, I think good irrigation with HP to clean the crap out and then irrigate with potable water.....failing that use a weak bleach solution to replace the HP. Good soap is great for most wounds, makes it smell nice and Pruuuudy too!
You talk about HP and failing that bleach to clean a wound. I just want to put out there *again* to people that they both use very different processes for cleaning. HP has no anti septic properties, Its only anti septic benefit is through dilution. It's only real benefit is the mechanical cleaning of a wound (which you can probably achieve better with a good scrub out), it won't kill bacteria, whereas bleach will kill, well pretty much anything lol.
Yea Pardus, Hydrogen Peroxide does not necessarily disinfect the wound, it will however clear any aerobic micro organisms out from the would and thus help prevent infection. This is particularly important in a wilderness or non conventional setting where EMS is a while away or there may be a delay to conventional emergency treatment. These aerobic micro organisms are commonly seen in dirt, earth and vegetation. I should have stressed that following the irrigation with HP the wound should be irrigated with at least 500 ml of potable water. Soap will clean a wound, due to the ph factor but will do little to kill any nasty shit. HP is not suitable for any wounds, and if EMS is available within 12-24 hours I would not advise it's use other than an emergency, however if you are out in the boon-docks or in a civil emergency it is great to use.........if not stick to bleach!! Hydrogen Peroxide, if used neat can cause chemical burns, it is best used in a 20% solution with potable water to eliminate this risk. Hydrogen peroxide appears not to negatively influence wound healing, but it is also ineffective in reducing the bacterial count. However, it may be useful as a chemical debriding agent. The American Medical Association concluded that the effervescence of hydrogen peroxide might provide some mechanical benefit in loosening debris and necrotic tissue of the wound.
Concentrated peroxide will kill living tissue without decreasing bacteria density, which then gives bacteria something to feed on retards wound healing, not a good idea. Diluted bleach (1/4 to 1/8% solution, or Dakin's) is your best bet for treating infected wounds; I use Dakin's on wounds almost daily. But nothing beats irrigation: "The solution to pollution is dilution" is an old surgical maxim.
Do not use betadine or peroxide, they both kill healthy tissue and create an environment for bacterial growth. Vigorous irrigation with sterile saline is the best wound care , lacking that Darkins solution (google it) is the next best alternative. I teach my students this maxim, start broad-spectrum antibiotics as soon as possible, if fact through scientific research we have discovered the ideal time to start them is one hour before you are wounded.
Starting treatment one hour before being wounded.... AWESOME! I advocate placing a tourniquet on limbs one hour before being wounded too, works great! :uhh: I would like you to back this claim up please. I would also like to know your medical training, thanks.
As I indicated, HP is to be used to chemically debride the wound and is to be used in wilderness environments when medical care is not immediately available, it is to be irrigated following use.
yea, you had me until "antibiotics 1 hour before injury". while that may in fact be true, it is simply not practical. At least, not from my optic. i dont have that much antibiotics running around, and it just seems like bad luck.... "Hey, Williams, I am going to give you this Cipro before the mission.What? No, i dont think anything bad is going to happen! But seriously, take this with food...."
I was taught to start with an ABX of low spectrum that covers the endemic stuff in the area, and increase your spectrum of coverage if there is sign of infection after 24-48 hours. Easier on the patient, easier on your supplies of the big guns later, less chance of helping create super bugs... WTF is it with 4th gen Cephalasprins and Cipro as ABX of first resort? Most of the stuyff out there is not penicillinase resistant gram negative staph or strep... yet, but we're sure working hard at making it that way. Prophylactic ABX is a bad idea. I agree with AMLove the rescue dog... "He dude, take this with food, we're getting ready to bust the wire... don't worry, you might start shitting all over yourself when we're in the beehive..."
X, what about the cutting away of proud flesh prior to treatment on certain wounds? Everything seems to have generalized here. Peroxide in extended use till healing, causes excessive scarring and delayed healing. I would also as Pardus stated like to have you start a thread with your SF knowledge of more major wounds that require care beyond basic medical treatments pertaining to, but not limited to more life threatening field applications. Have at it Bro! You are more than qualified to teach here. I'm a bit hammered after showing my son vids of people getting their heads hacked off by cowards, so please excuse the lack of proper punchiation.
