Discuss and Debate: "Islam is a Religion of Peace"

Discussion in 'Leadership and Professional Development' started by Marauder06, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. Th3 Maelstr0m Bally-hoosman

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    Indeed I have:
    “Civilisation is confronted with militant Mahommedanism. The forces of progress clash with those of reaction. The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed.”- Churchill


    Compare with a description of Arabs by a 4th century historian called Ammianus Marcellinus:
    "The inhabitants of all the districts are savage & warlike, & take such pleasure in war & conflict, that one who loses his life in battle is regarded as happy beyond all others. For those who depart from this life by a natural death they assail with insults, as degenerate & cowardly... we never found (them) desirable as friends or enemies."

    Th3 Maelstr0m, Jan 15, 2012
    #101
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  2. pardus

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    Doesn't seem like much has changed with the Jihadists...
    pardus, Jan 15, 2012
    #102
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  3. Th3 Maelstr0m Bally-hoosman

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    No, not much seems to have changed at all. The convo in the other thread about Pressfield's books brought up a good point as well. Compare todays jihadists with what we read in Pressfield's "Afghan Campaign." A lot of his descriptions about the people, their tactics, etc felt eerily similar to what we see today, & that was centuries before Muhammad came on the scene.
    Th3 Maelstr0m, Jan 16, 2012
    #103

  4. pardus

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    I thought that too.
    Pressfield seems pretty good at doing his research but his portrayal of the Aghans a result of his historical research or was he influenced by Islam?
    pardus, Jan 16, 2012
    #104

  5. Th3 Maelstr0m Bally-hoosman

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    Th3 Maelstr0m, Jan 16, 2012
    #105

  6. Marauder06 Intel Enabler

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    I've been a little distracted by school lately and haven't been keeping up with this thread like I've meant to. Whatever happened in this thread, it was cleaned up and sorted before I got a look at it. But judging from the PMs I've received and the posting by Freefalling, there have been some shenanigans. That's disappointing. I was hoping that our little group was mature enough to have a rational discussion without it getting out of hand, it looks like I was naive.

    I'm not a fan of Islam, but I didn't create this thread to bash the religion. I created it so we could rationally discuss what is perhaps one of the most important topics of our day, and certainly a topic that is relevant to those of us in the military. My intent in these types of threads is always to present accurate and complete information so individuals on the site can make up (or change) their minds based on the best available data. When things become personal or overly emotional, we lose the ability to do that.

    These types of threads are also useful for exposing holes in your own arguments. For example, if you use "give me one example..." as part of your argument, someone is likely going to be able to give that one example. If you're basing your defense of Islam on attacking Christianity, how do you react if your opponent agrees with you, or refuses to engage on that topic? Threads like these are also good because they arm you with the ammunition of the "other side" of the argument, which allows you to develop counterarguments for the future. So, these threads are good because they have both educational and reinforcing attributes. They also help to alleviate biases and to clear up common misperceptions.

    Think about some common misperceptions that we've cleared up on the site: how many of you think that you can't use a .50 cal against troops? Or say "roadmarch" when you mean "footmarch?" Or think that "irregardless" or "orientate" aren't real words? Pretty simple stuff right- so why do so many people keep getting it wrong? Because they've heard it so often over the years, they believe it is true without ever questioning it or thinking to check on it themselves. If we can't get little things like that right, how many of us truly think we know all about a religion that most of us don't even practice? If you dislike Islam, fine, but understand and be able to articulate the "why." Same thing if you like or are neutral to Islam. Do you have enough information and/or experience to make an informed judgment, or are you simply believing what you've heard or been told to think, with no critical thinking on your own part?

    One last thought: ad hominem attacks are the tools of the uninformed and the intellectually lazy. There are plenty of other SOF sites out there where we could go if we want to engage in that kind of behavior, we have higher expectations here. I don't know what happened here or who was involved, nor do I really care. The fact that it happened on this site at all, especially after repeated admonitions from the staff, is the issue. Very, very disappointing.

    I'm glad to see that whatever happened here is over, and I hope this thread stays on track. I'd like to have more of these types of discussions in the future, but I'm not sure if we're ready for them yet.
    Marauder06, Jan 17, 2012
    #106

  7. lindy

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    So what I'm hearing you say is that Islam is NOT a religion of peace? :-/
    lindy, Jan 17, 2012
    #107

  8. Marauder06 Intel Enabler

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    lol

    I DEFINITELY have clipart for that one, brother. Stand by...
    Marauder06, Jan 17, 2012
    #108

  9. Marauder06 Intel Enabler

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    islam violent.jpg
    Marauder06, Jan 17, 2012
    #109

  10. HOLLiS

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    When you look at some members of any religion who are non-peaceful, then I guess it would be safe to say, there is no such thing as a religion of peace.

    The fallacy is equivocation.
    HOLLiS, Jan 17, 2012
    #110

  11. QC 1 CDO

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    Taoism is pretty harmless. Buddhism too, not to many Tao/Buddhist terror cells around.
    QC, Jan 17, 2012
    #111

  12. HOLLiS

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    Yes and no. In India the Buddhists and Hindus would have it. Islam is what ever the Muslims member make it to be. Not all are terrorists and probably like many other religions most are not all that knowledgeable about their religion.
    HOLLiS, Jan 17, 2012
    #112

  13. QC 1 CDO

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    Yes, there are extremist Hindus, the Thuggi, who worship Kali. Hence the term "thug" but I'm pretty sure they're not around anymore. Also the hardline Hindus let loose and do some pretty radical things now and then. As for buddhists, a pretty peaceful lot.
    QC, Jan 17, 2012
    #113

  14. HOLLiS

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    IMHO, it is up to the Islamic community to demonstrate those Muslim who use terrorism does not follow the Qur'an or Islam. There are some that are finally doing that, or the media is finally presenting them to us as news. In the mid 70's I was reading a Islamic Scholar write on progressive Islam. Pretty progressive stuff. Unfortunately I have forgotten his name and do not know if he survived his fellow Muslims disagreements.

    There are inconsistencies in Buddhism too. Probably within any religion there are core believers, I would guess the percentage is not great. With illiteracy being very high in the ME and cleric enjoying a status close to being a feudal lord, the clerics can make Islam what ever they want it to be. Also look at NOI, Nation of Islam. They did some good things and some bad things.

    Again, I would fall back to want another member said about faith and religion.
    HOLLiS, Jan 17, 2012
    #114

  15. QC 1 CDO

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    It's a valid point regarding what ME countries say. Saudi for example state publically that they've moderated their stance but unfortunately they haven't and Wahabbism still is a big part of their School curriculum, with all the bells and whistles of conservative Islam.
    I would be curious to find that guy writing on progressive Islam.
    QC, Jan 17, 2012
    #115

  16. Florida173

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    No such thing as a progressive Muslim. The point of how Islam is deemed better than the other children of the book is that the Quran has not been perverted by man as the Bible has.

    Where does the saying "Religion of Peace" come from? There is only peace in submission. It's in the words. Islam comes from salim (submit). People confuse salaam with islam. Same root, two different meanings.

    The biggest problem we have are with the Muslims practicing Salifism. Comes from salafa (to bring back), as in bring back to the days of their messenger.

    The only thing that my degree in Arabic language and Middle Eastern Culture has taught me is that there are tons of good Muslims, but they aren't extremely devout Muslims.
    Florida173, Jan 19, 2012
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  17. QC 1 CDO

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    Perverted by man! Several passages or surahs were destroyed in the collection of the current and definitive work. Also it's what his posse could remember him saying. I don't think, as is claimed, it's the direct word of God.
    QC, Jan 19, 2012
    #117

  18. HOLLiS

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    Florida, there are progressive Muslims but as you pointed out and may I add, in context to the many Muslims as you pointed out, Disagreement means:

    1) the person is not devout
    2) the person is a apostate
    3) the person is perverting the Holy Qur'an

    No different then the days of Papal Infallibility.

    The word Muslim, means submission. Avroham is referred as a Muslim in the 2nd Sura. Isn't that what most religions ask for is submission of he member to the ______________.

    The old way is greatly protected from change. Then that is not unusual with people. It is just a matter of degree and how it is done. Islam is not the cause of intolerance. It is just good at protecting it.
    HOLLiS, Jan 19, 2012
    #118
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