New D book

Discussion in 'Special Forces' started by RetPara, Feb 1, 2008.

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  1. 8'Duece

    8'Duece Guest

    Since this thread started I am rereading Haney's book. "Inside Delta Force"

    He was the second selection class and spent 8 years with the unit. I don't know where he went from there.

    Eric Haney was also one of the OTC instructors. In his book he has a picture of his Enlistment Evaluation Report (EER Form 2166-6) All his marks are "5's" which maxis out his overall score for the EER at that time. From 85-04-85-11
     
  2. formerBrat

    formerBrat Lab Animal Member

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    I would agree, that it seems that if NDA's are signed, why violate them, is there something in the UCMJ that directly covers these documents?

    I am asking as an outsider who has not served in the military. BTW, NDA's are common in a lot of civilian workplaces as well, whether it is civil service or business/technology. Granted, most of those are about proprietary business issues and not National secrets or possibly giving away tactical/strategic information.

    To comment on the books mentioned in this thread so far. I have read Haney's book and as an outsider who wouldnt' know any better, it is a good read, but I also have since read all the backlash about his book and the issues with it.

    That being said, I have also read Delta Force by the late Col. Beckwith, and found it a great read as well. Did anyone have issues with him writing a book about his time with CAG/1st SOFD-D. I am asking because I have never heard anything like that about his book. I will say that he sounded like quite the character and a heck of an interesting guy.

    Killer Elite is another one I have read and found also interesting, but also wondered about it's accuracy since it's about another unit who's existence isn't really acknowledged. (please correct me if i'm wrong about this)
     
  3. JAB

    JAB Infantry Verified Military

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    In Side Delta Force by CSM Eric Haney (US Army Retired) was one of the books I read in 2004 in between missions. It took me all of a week while conducting mission to read, so yeah it’s a damn good book. IMO it was more of a biography then a book on Delta.

    Things in the book that made me raise an eyebrow:

    1. His accounts of possible POW in Viet Nam.
    2. Accounts of operations in South America.
    3. Accusation of CIA and Military wrong doing in operations conducted in south America (his selection buddy being killed)
    4. His private contracting after leaving the military.

    I also did not like how he advised the TV show the “UNIT” in regards to daily life and operation that may or may not happen. I also did not like the “mercenary” recruitment/ job after retirement add on…

    In regards to the contracting, it is not that I disagree with contracting. I simply disagree with how it was portrayed in his book and in the TV show he advised…:2c:
     
  4. Ravage

    Ravage running up that hill Member

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    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/02/60minutes/main4494937.shtml

    (CBS) The man who led the Pentagon's mission to kill Osama bin Laden says the Afghan allies he was forced to use may have undermined his operation. He also tells correspondent Scott Pelley his superiors scuttled the most effective plan of attack against the al Qaeda leader.

    The former Delta Force officer, who uses the pseudonym "Dalton Fury," tells his story for the first time on 60 Minutes, this Sunday, Oct. 5, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

    Ten weeks after 9/11, Fury and a team of U.S. Army Delta Force soldiers joined CIA operatives and Afghan fighters known as mujahideen under the command of a warlord named General Hazrat Ali, to whom the CIA paid millions in cash. The Americans and Afghans pursued bin Laden and an estimated 1,000 al Qaeda fighters into the Tora Bora Mountains, near the border with Pakistan. The U.S. strategy, says Fury, was to let Afghan allies do most of the fighting, while U.S. Special Operations Forces directed air strikes and provided support.

    The problem, according to Fury, was that Ali's mujahideen would attack up the mountain by day and retreat at night, giving up territory they'd won. Today, Fury wonders whether some of the supposedly friendly Afghans were really conspiring with al Qaeda. "The mujahideen would go up and get into a skirmish…lose a guy or two, maybe kill an al-Qaeda guy or two and then they leave…almost like it was an agreement…Put on a good show and then leave," recalls Fury, a retired Army major.

    As the U.S. and Afghan forces listened to bin Laden's radio communications, Fury noticed the Afghan's demeanor. "These guys in my opinion were more in awe of Osama bin Laden than they were willing to kill him," he tells Pelley. "…They could almost see him and feel his presence and they just stood there with wide eyes and somewhat in awe that here is the leader of the jihad…and they’re actually hearing his voice over the radio."

    Fury's soldiers continued their frontal assault on the Tora Bora mountainside battlefield by day, when Ali's mujahideen would rejoin them. But that's not the plan Fury thought would work best. "We wanted to come in on the back door." The initial plan to climb the mountain from the Pakistan side and surprise the enemy was denied. "Whether that was central command [or] all the way up to the president of the United States, I'm not sure," he says.

    Such a denial was unheard of, according to Fury. "In my experience, in my five years at Delta, never before." His superiors also rejected a plan to drop landmines from the air on bin Laden's likely escape route to Pakistan.

    At one point, Fury led a team deep into Tora Bora to rescue Americans who had come under fire. That rescue mission may have brought Fury as close as he ever came to bin Laden. But, it was night and Afghan allies had gone home. Fury was under orders to have Afghan fighters take the lead, and intelligence said bin Laden was protected by more than a thousand hardened fighters. Fury decided to postpone the attack until morning.

    "Had we gone up that ridgeline towards that location, Osama bin Laden may have been 500 meters away. We might have run right into him," Fury tells Pelley. In the book Fury wrote about the mission, Kill Bin Laden, he writes that his decision to abort that effort left him with the feeling he had let down the nation. In his interview with Pelley, he says, "It wasn't worth the risk at that particular moment to go up there and play cowboy."

    The next time Delta had a lead on bin Laden, they thought he entered a cave with about 50 men. The Americans called in every available bomb and bombarded the cave for hours. Fury believed they'd killed the al Qaeda leader at that time. When bin Laden released a video in 2004, Fury was disappointed. Now he believes, based on intelligence, that bin Laden was injured in the shoulder by shrapnel and then treated and hidden by local sympathizers. He escaped to Pakistan days later, perhaps by car. "He moved as far as he could and then got out and either walked across or was carried across into Pakistan, free and clear," Fury tells Pelley.
     
  5. surgicalcric

    surgicalcric Special Forces Verified SOF

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    Blah, blah, blah...
     
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  6. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire BTDT — SOF Rest In Peace

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    Elite Officer Recalls Hunt For Bin Laden

    As seen on 60 Minutes tonight!

    Elite Officer Recalls Hunt For Bin Laden

    Delta Force Commander Says The Best Plan To Kill The Al Qaeda Leader In 2001 Was Nixed

    The Hunt For Bin Laden
    The officer who led the army's Delta Force mission to kill Osama bin Laden after 9/11 reveals what really happened in Tora Bora, Afghanistan, when the al-Qaeda leader narrowly escaped. Scott Pelley reports.

    (CBS)*Shortly after 9/11, the Pentagon ordered a top secret team of American commandos into Afghanistan with a single, simple order: kill Osama bin Laden. It was America's best chance to eliminate the leader of al Qaeda. The inside story of exactly what happened in that mission, and how close it came to its objective has never been told until now.

    The man you are about to meet was the officer in command, leading a team from the U.S. Army's mysterious Delta Force - a unit so secret, it's often said Delta doesn't exist. But you are about to see Delta's operators in action.

    Why would the mission commander break his silence after seven years? He told 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley that most everything he has read in the media about his mission is wrong and now he wants to set the record straight.

    Link

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/02/60minutes/main4494937.shtml
     
  7. x SF med

    x SF med Special Forces Moderating Staff

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    Dalton Fury is under censure from DoD, SOCOM, and the SOF community. He has been declared PNG and is facing legal action for violating NDAs and revealing information of a sensitive nature in his book. He has violated the trust of various units, and the SOF community as a whole.

    I have done some in depth research and cannot condone his actions, nor the publication of his book (because it exposes others to possible capture or death at the hands of the enemy - which IMHO is treason).

    Any unit with which this man has been associated in the past has turned their back on him for a violation of trust and honor - all in the name of personal gain.

    Operations fail. Battles get lost. Good men die. This is the way of war. Secrets are kept. Feelings are quashed. And at some point we are allowed to bring them to light. This is the way of honor.

    This is the end of my rant on this - you may do with it what you will.:2c:
     
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  8. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire BTDT — SOF Rest In Peace

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    I would agree with all that you have said here. I have also read the threads on the PS website on this man and the issue. In the end, most there have come to the same conclusions on the man and his book, etc.

    IMO, the really bad thing about these types of books, movies and TV specials, is there will be more and more of them, unless the proper authorities start taking punitive actions, against those that violate the written agreements they have signed, while serving in these SOF units.

    My understanding is that this individual, never served as a Special Forces soldier and has a Ranger background, like CSM Haney, for what that is worth.
     
  9. DoctorDoom

    DoctorDoom Size: Extra Asian Verified Military

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    Old family saying:
    How do three keep a secret?
    One of the three kills the other two. And then silences the heaven and the earth.

    Didn't COL Beckwith write a book about SFOD-D? What about all those book CMDR Couch writes about SEALs and everyone else? They don't ssem to earn the derision that Haney does.

    I'm asking because I don't understand.
     
  10. x SF med

    x SF med Special Forces Moderating Staff

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    Both of those books were condoned and passed evaluation by DoD, and SOCOM - did not reveal any truly sensitive information, and were written long after the operations and the conflicts were reduced in classification. No names of current members were ever revealed.
     
  11. DoctorDoom

    DoctorDoom Size: Extra Asian Verified Military

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    I can see that; Couch's books largely are about training and selection, so that makes sense also.

    I read Haney's book, it was ok, a bit self-aggrandizing. But I was also under the impression that he was writing about events in the distant past, although I see how writing about actual operations understandably has no statute of limitations, as it were.

    Seems like also there's the catch 22; people don't want the truth revealed, then call these authors to task for "embellishments" or "half-truths." Then again, telling tales about one's own role while simultaneously revealing accurate operational details, I can see how the QP's would be displeased, to say the least.
     
  12. AssadUSMC

    AssadUSMC Ruining hajis' days Verified Military

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    Lots of us here know lots of cool stuff not for public dissem. It's kind of what makes our jobs interesting... When guys start spilling the beans, wannabes all come out of the woodwork.

    As for "running your suck", I think it's only good when it's a policy message other than a documentary. For example, if Maj "Fury" wanted to effect changes in how ops are prosecuted, then establish bona fides as a unit guy, then proceed to say what/how he'd change it.
     
  13. x SF med

    x SF med Special Forces Moderating Staff

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    Haney is also PNG in the SOF community.

    Both Haney and Greer sold their honor for hollywood cash. And using a lowercase "h" in Honor for them was intentional.

    May the black helicopters hunt them both down and make them disappear.
     
  14. 08steeda

    08steeda Guest

    As someone who was always really interested in the Spec Ops areas and got to hang with a few of them, I find it interesting that there isn't some way that these traitors to the honor and integrity of those units don't get a free pass to Leavenworth.

    I forget what form it was, but the Air Force has one that everyone signs that is connected to a specific operation. In it, it states very clearly that if you violate that agreement that you are subject to immediate imprisonment. It has been a number of years now so I am a little foggy on it. Everyone referred to a 99 year waiver or something like it.

    Wouldn't these author's have signed one too? It was a lot more than an NDA although the similarities certainly are present in both.

    FYI - Here are a few of the coins I have collected:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Gunny = god Verified SOF Support

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    Has anyone actually read the book?
     
  16. lockNload

    lockNload Unverified

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    I'm 135 pages into it and think it's a great book.
     
  17. I'm on page 10 (there is a long forward that includes the process it took to write it, why he wrote it, getting SOCOM to clear it, those who support it, are against it, etc). I have school shit to read, so I pick it when I'm able. So far it is really good.
     
  18. Florida173

    Florida173 Verified SOF Support

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    Imagine what it would be like if are military was more like the British as to not allowing pretty much anything into print
     
  19. lockNload

    lockNload Unverified

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    You know how many books are out there on SAS? You have former SAS guys like Chris Ryan and Andy McNab that write books just the same....
     
  20. pardus

    pardus Moderating Staff

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    Have a look at when those books came out.

    They are why the Brits clamped down so hard.
     
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