Discussion in '75th Ranger Regiment' started by JohnnyBoyUSMC, Jan 16, 2012.
prep course to the prep course? sounds a bit redundant but hey if it works, it works!
I meant turning pre-rasp into a more formalized course, like SOPC, not having both of them.
ah, my mistake. does sound like a good idea. any chance putting it into the regiment "suggestion box" would do any good?
We don't need a prep course for RASP, ffs its 8 weeks long. Cmon now.
Adding the book to my reading list. Should be a good read.
SFAS has SOPC for 18x and REP-63 contract holders.
Actually, what do you think about SF and Ranger candidates going to SOPC together and then continuing on to their respective Selections?
Sounds like a generally good idea to me, though for PT, land nav and other such classes. Might wanna break the two groups (ones going SFAS and ones going RASP) into two diff groups at some point for some things such as unit history classes and such. Then again this is coming from someone who has not gone through either, just a vet who's looking at it in a common sense context. Would like to hear what others who have been through either or both prep courses think though.
SOPC is at Bragg from what I understand. It'd be an expensive and pointless TDY with nothing really to gain by making it joint. I suppose you could move SOPC to Benning, but once again it's pointless to do so.
I didn't even think about that. :sick:
The Navy has all the NSW guys go into a prep program at Great Lakes, where Navy Boot Camp is held. Maybe moving it to Benning wouldn't be a bad idea. All 18x, 11x, Opt. 40, or REP-63s would go through OSUT, BAC, and SOPC at one place before the SF candidates break off to go to NC for their Selection. It might cost to move it, but the long-term benefits may be worth it. The cadre could be a shared burden between SF and Ranger Instructors which would somewhat ease the load on cadre requirements for each branch, and maybe the candidates would benefit from the differing styles.
Well, since all 18x's are already at benning for airborne, all the 18x and opt. 40's could go off to a SOPC or whatever, and then the 18x's ship up to bragg and the opt 40's go on to RASP. And that way the 18x's that don't make it through the prep course, the army doesn't have to waste the money on sending them to bragg, they can just go into the same world wide pool the opt. 40's go into. SFAS and RASP are obviously two very different courses looking for two different types of people, but a prep course can easily be designed to benefit both the SF and Ranger candidate.
You sure RASP and SF candidates could sit along together and play nice for a few weeks? Like you said, two diff courses looking for two diff types of people
I'm sure they would handle it just fine
I'm sure they would, I can just always recall in the Corps the usual personality clashes between those in/going for a job and those on the other side, made for some entertaining times needless to say.
If I went through SFAS I could have a more valid answer for you. But SFAS and RASP test a candidate for different traits so I don't know how beneficial a joint course will be.
They obviously should have different selection courses, but as far as a prep course that mainly focus's on PT, Land Nav, etc., I don't think that will be bad. Of course, I don't have any idea if SOPC has more to it than just PT and Land Nav, just going off of "what I heard"...
If the prep courses were to be combined the PT/land nav and such could be run with everyone together and then perhaps later in the day or even later in the course the group broken up into it's two respective groups for focus on history, required knowledge, peer guidance/advising, and whatever else is needed in regards to which selection that group is preparing for. That way you have a combined group of candidates receiving the necessary PT thrasing's and such to whip them into shape, the base knowledge that both selection course have/are needed for either group, and the more focused knowledge and skill teachings that are deemed necessary or desired for that groups selection course.
This could also help build a stronger relationship within the communities of both as those that pass their respective selections would have contacts and friends they had made while in the prep course who are in the other unit, which in itself (despite the unit's having different jobs and training) could establish a more focused and productive channel between respective unit's for a sharing of idea's, comradeship, joint-training and such.
After reading this discussion on the joint prep course do you
dknob, or any other Ranger, ever see Regiment getting to the point where most guys stay there career like SF? I remember you roughly breaking down what guys decide to do after their 1st or 2nd term is up the number one option being most guys get out. Taking into account the establishment and extension of RASP, Pre-RASP, experimenting with sending more guys to RS first, more "selective" recruiting, do you see staying in Regiment for the full 20 ever becoming the most common occurrence? Or does the optempo,any number of factors really, prevent that from happening?
I don't know that the numbers are much different on the SF side. I seem to remember reading somewhere that alot of guys get out after one or two enlistments on the SF side as well. As you saw by the example I gave in the other thread, quite a few guys do stay in Regiment.
Anyone with a long tab care to weigh in on this?
Word is that SOPC grads have good reps for being able to build solid apparatuses able to carry heavy items long distances.
I don't think any special selection process will change the 75th retention numbers. They will always be shit. Its the nature of this business.
OPTEMPO has little to do with it, if anything it keeps people in longer. If you go to www.armyranger.com, a lot of those member signatures will say : "1/75 92-94", "3/75 88 - 89".
Rangers pre 9/11 and post Panama trained and trained for combat that never came. Unless you were those small select few who went to Somalia. Or the ones who went to the Gulf. Why train for combat in an elite light infantry unit if you never get to go kill motherfuckers.
It's just the nature of the beast (lifestyle), that wears people out. Those select few who tough it out in the community in an operational capacity will either A: make it a 20 year career, or B: move up the ladder.
The truth is being in the Regiment is great, and the missions CAN be cool sometimes. But they get redundant. VERY redundant. Hell I'm sure guys in SF get tired of doing FID and JCETs. So both sides tend to get out because frankly they get bored. The problem with the US Special Operations Community.. is the HUGEEEEE gap between SF/75th and the SMU world. In terms of making the "transition". I mean it is freaking huge. It is not a "just the next step" by any means. Other units around the world.. and I don't mean to stir the hornet's nest here or cause strife - but they don't have that huge gap between them that ours do. The gap between SASR and the Commando Regiments, is not (in my opinion) as big as the gap between SF/75th and CAG. To put it in a numbers perspective - SASR has 3 line squadrons which I assume have a minimum of 50 guys each. So 150 total. The 2nd Commando Regiment, is a battalion sized unit with 4 line companies. Probably another 650 guys. The Australian Army has like 30,000 active dudes. That means that 2.1 percent of those guys are in 2nd CDO, and .5 percent are in the SASR. So anywhere from 2.5 to 3 % of the Australian Army are special ops door kickers. Not a bad statistic. And I also read that 15-20% of candidates are accepted into the SASR, that is roughly the same percentage as the guys who end up in the UK SAS.
CAG selection.. is like 5%-7%. And the majority of candidates who try out are some squared away hooahs from the 75th and SF. It is ridiculously stupid hard to get into that unit. And even then, guys get dropped from the follow on OTC like its nobody's business. So it's not in anyway just "the next step" in an Army soldier's SOF career. Not at all. BASICALLY, what I am trying to say is that 75th and SF who want to continue doing cool shit and are tired of their own careers... they have NO PLACE to go! Most guys in the Rangers and SF look at CAG as one of those almost unattainable goals. So because they don't have anywhere else to go, they get out. If we had some kind of Army unit in between the world of CAG and SF/75th. Then more people would go there and the US Army would retain awesome soldiers. But we don't, and we never will.
*** to give a comparison in the numbers between Australian Army SOF and American Army SOF:
The US Army has 560,000 Active Duty guys. .9 percent are Long tabbers, and .4 percent are 75th.
.02 percent are in CAG. Do you see the discrepancy here in ratio? The actual quantity of troops in the Army doesn't matter. It's about the ratio.