6 weeks to get contracted for Navy Diver. What are my options

Ooh-Rah

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You won’t make it in 6 weeks. Even if you miraculously do, you will get hurt either in DEP, in boot camp, or in the pipeline. The minimal standards are a recruiting tool. If you make it on minimal standards you will not make it through the pipeline.


I promise to come back here with what exactly I think you should do, unfortunately I just don’t have the time at the moment.
Thanks Arf. It will likely stay unlocked.

@ZBarbour97 - It will be worth your while to take heed the advice you have received to date. As I've said too many times, I cannot even put into words how different my Military career could have been if I had a resource like ShadowSpear in 1989.
 

ZBarbour97

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Mods please give me a chance to post on this thread before it gets locked. Or at least let me post after it is locked.

I am the most relevant person to give advice to this young man for three reasons:


1. I joined within the last three years, and I know exactly the process he is going through.

2. I’m not only Navy, but I have gone through the special programs physical screening test and process that he needs to pass now that he is in DEP.

3. I have insight into his pipeline.


I wanted to post this now just to come back to it, because unfortunately I may not have time to go in depth.

My quick response:

You won’t make it in 6 weeks. Even if you miraculously do, you will get hurt either in DEP, in boot camp, or in the pipeline. The minimal standards are a recruiting tool. If you make it on minimal standards you will not make it through the pipeline.


I promise to come back here with what exactly I think you should do, unfortunately I just don’t have the time at the moment.
Thank you for your time. I’ll be watching for your response.
 

Devildoc

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I don't believe the lad was trying to be disparaging. I think he has some pretty significant frustration which led to some poor choice of words in his communications.

That said... @ZBarbour97 , I appreciate your frustration, but as my colleagues have said, 1) it's your career, they're not making you do anything, 2) You have to go into it mentally and physically right or you will fail, 3) @Ooh-Rah wisely posted that this form is a literal treasure trove of career guidance and advice. But we see so many guys come on here, young studs, who just want to argue with us.

I understand your financial predicament, and absolutely think that joining the Navy now can lead to better things down the road. But you have to get your mind and body right or you will never be successful. Whatever you sign up for, do it 100%, get all the qualifications you can, and kick ass.
 

ZBarbour97

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I don't believe the lad was trying to be disparaging. I think he has some pretty significant frustration which led to some poor choice of words in his communications.

That said... @ZBarbour97 , I appreciate your frustration, but as my colleagues have said, 1) it's your career, they're not making you do anything, 2) You have to go into it mentally and physically right or you will fail, 3) @Ooh-Rah wisely posted that this form is a literal treasure trove of career guidance and advice. But we see so many guys come on here, young studs, who just want to argue with us.

I understand your financial predicament, and absolutely think that joining the Navy now can lead to better things down the road. But you have to get your mind and body right or you will never be successful. Whatever you sign up for, do it 100%, get all the qualifications you can, and kick ass.
I sincerely was not trying to insult anyone at all. I again apologize if I have. I admit I had poor choice of words and I will take it as a lesson learned. The fact that people are still posting in here to help me is unbelievably appreciated by me.

Navy Diver is the one thing I’ve found in my life that I have a passion for beyond anything else that I’ve ever experienced in life. It is my ultimate dream and goal to earn.

I highly agree with you and others that have mentioned along similar lines that I need to do it get my mind and body right. The last thing I want to do is fail in the pipeline due to injury or failure to meet standards and go to the needs of the Navy and potentially ruin my chances of going ND with said injury or as others have said not having time or energy to train or a command that won’t approve my request. Then I’m stuck in a job that the Navy chose for me making me miserable. I want to do this right. I don’t want to settle. I will put in the work necessary and train as hard as I need to do this beyond the minimum standards.
 

Arf

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@ZBarbour97 I apologize for taking so long to come back to the forum. I hope your ship out date was pushed back.


My current contracted rate is MMS (machinist mate submarine) however I do not want to be a MMS but that was the placeholder rate they gave me at MEPS even after asking me if I wanted to try for diver so they could get me more time to train. Even after telling my recruiter I wanted AD (Aviation Machinist Mate) 6 weeks is simply not enough time to train in my eyes and as I said before my mentor agreed and told me to ask for a roll out in my ship date to which the Chief said NO.

When I first went to MEPS, I took an Air Traffic Controller(AC) rate because the ship date was A YEAR away. I did that in case I got injured and was not able to get a SWCC contract within a short period of time. I ended up securing a SWCC contract with my Physical Screening Tests(PSTs) in 2 months. Once I got my SWCC contract, the AC ship out date and contract completely went away, and I got an entirely new SWCC contract and ship out date.

I told him if I could not pass my PST in 6 weeks I would simply not ship out because I’m not going in with a rate I’m not going to enjoy. His response was “Okay” and hung up the phone.

You got F%#*ed and I couldn’t agree with this statement more. Recruiters want to get you in, and it is going to hurt them hard if you don’t ship out. It will hurt them way harder than it will hurt you. Stay strong.


Both my oboarding recruiter the Chief who told me no to a ship date roll out and my initial recruiter who sent me to MEPS informed me that “you know it’s easier to contract for diver once you’re already in the Navy right?
This is 100 percent not true.

“We can do a Delayed Action Request for AD if you want but we want to give you pool time first and there are no guarantees an AD spot will open up”

I want to reiterate that once you receive that Diver contract, your old contract will completely disappear. There will be no record that you ever had that, and if you drop in Diver School, you will pick a completely new rate.

Do I have enough time if I’m putting in the work on my own time 6 days a week?

I very much commend your ambition. I think you very much have the right attitude. I’m concerned with you injuring yourself though, particularly with the running. Do lots of stretching and if you hurt at all, take a day off. You are going ramping up this training super fast and your body isn’t used to it.

what are my options in this situation and what are your thoughts on my training regiment.

I think if you show motivation it will give you better chances at anything.


I’m trying not to have doubts and stay strong mentally but I also realize I can’t avoid reality if it’s simply not enough time in training to successfully pass my ND pipeline.

Historically the minimums PST standards don’t do very well. If you get hurt and get rolled, take it as a blessing that you aren’t dropped and use the opportunity to get stronger.


I’ll post more when I can. In the mean time, what’s your status currently?
 
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Arf

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So do I continue to harp on my onboarding recruiter about a ship date roll out? He’s been a total dick to me so far. Even my specwar mentor said he heard that the Chief was treating me like shit. Or do I request a Delayed Action Request for a different Rate than MMS and do my time in that rate train for a couple years and then request through my command for a dive contract? I don’t like the idea of backing out entirely because the military is the next step in life but I can play hard ball if I need too to get them to work for me. I just don’t want to push too hard and have them fuck me more than they already have and potentially not work with me at all on anything.

I’m not telling you it is not possible to go Diver through the fleet, it’s just astronomically more difficult. Being an MMS is probably going to be tough. I’ve never done it myself but I’ve heard what life is like in the fleet and on a sub and it’s a hard life. That being said, becoming a veteran will be worth it in my opinion no matter what. If I walk down the street and happen to meet you as an MMS, you will get my immediate respect as a sailor. We volunteer for this life. It’s not easy, and it’s not for everyone, and that is why you will have my respect. You will volunteer and serve when everyone else will say, “F that!”

If offered a choice between MMS and Diver, 10000 times fight for Diver.

I can’t back out of the navy because I’m already struggling financially as it is. I’m not a high schooler living under mommy and daddies money. I pay all my own bills and even if my employer did work with me on time off I’d be short on money to pay all my bills in a timely manner. Seems like the military is geared towards only naive highschools who have no problem getting out of school early or for a whole day and don’t need to work a full time job to support themselves. At this point I’m going to meet with my onboarding recruiter ASAP and submit a DAR for AD and hope some highschool kid doesn’t ship or pops hot on a UA, something and I can take that slot. I’ll train my ass of for 2 years in while in the navy and after 2 years in my rate whether it be AD or even MMS I’ll request to go Diver and take it from there.
I saw this before but I think I just chose to ignore it. I have to ask, what is more important, a job, any job? Or Diver?
 
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ZBarbour97

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I’m not telling you it is not possible to go Diver through the fleet, it’s just astronomically more difficult. Being an MMS is probably going to be tough. I’ve never done it myself but I’ve heard what life is like in the fleet and on a sub and it’s a hard life. That being said, becoming a veteran will be worth it in my opinion no matter what. If I walk down the street and happen to meet you as an MMS, you will get my immediate respect as a sailor. We volunteer for this life. It’s not easy, and it’s not for everyone, and that is why you will have my respect. You will volunteer and serve when everyone else will say, “F that!”

If offered a choice between MMS and Diver, 10000 times fight for Diver.



I saw this before but I think I just chose to ignore it. I have to ask, what is more important, a job, any job? Or Diver?
Currently I’m still in DEP. Kinda of screwed with training because there is absolutely ZERO places for me to swim. I want to fight for Diver I just don’t know what to do at this point. It’s such a unique situation I feel like with the covid crap going on and gyms and pools being closed. How do they expect us to be able to prepare for a full PST with no pools available?
My ship date stays the same. I’ve had no luck getting a roll out on my ship date.
My spirit is crushed honestly. I had all the motivation in the world before even with my limited time. Holding out hope if I just proved myself in the pool time wise I could get a roll out. Now that chance seems slim to none.
 

Devildoc

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Currently I’m still in DEP. Kinda of screwed with training because there is absolutely ZERO places for me to swim. I want to fight for Diver I just don’t know what to do at this point. It’s such a unique situation I feel like with the covid crap going on and gyms and pools being closed. How do they expect us to be able to prepare for a full PST with no pools available?
My ship date stays the same. I’ve had no luck getting a roll out on my ship date.
My spirit is crushed honestly. I had all the motivation in the world before even with my limited time. Holding out hope if I just proved myself in the pool time wise I could get a roll out. Now that chance seems slim to none.
Not wanting to sound like an ass....that's a 'you' problem, not a 'them' problem. They have made it abundantly clear they do not care. They have one job, and that's to put bodies in billets. They do not care if it's a square peg in a round hole.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. Tactically withdraw and live to fight another day.

One of best friends was a SEAL; old school, HM, before they went SO. We were on a pump together before he went to BUDS. His swim time sucked because he swam like 3 times in 6 months. But every time I saw him he was PTing his ass off, and he crushed everything else.

Lookit, if you are not ready, you are not ready. Decide what you want to do.
 

Arf

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Currently I’m still in DEP. Kinda of screwed with training because there is absolutely ZERO places for me to swim. I want to fight for Diver I just don’t know what to do at this point. It’s such a unique situation I feel like with the covid crap going on and gyms and pools being closed. How do they expect us to be able to prepare for a full PST with no pools available?
My ship date stays the same. I’ve had no luck getting a roll out on my ship date.
My spirit is crushed honestly. I had all the motivation in the world before even with my limited time. Holding out hope if I just proved myself in the pool time wise I could get a roll out. Now that chance seems slim to none.

What is your ship date? Also, my original question, do you want to be a Diver? Or do you just need any job?

If you just need any job, MMS is going to pay a lot more than AD. Submariners make a lot of money.
 

Arf

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I know I’m very late, but here’s a workout regime I’ve been following to prepare my self for becoming a Navy Diver
http://navy.rotc.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/EOD_Physical_Prep_Guide.pdf

Disclaimer: I’m not trying to be condescending.

This is a good start. It seems to ramp up slow enough for someone who is out of shape to safely get to a good place. Once you finish this guide you can actually start to train heavily. I would use the guides on SEALSWCC.com over this in the long run.

The end of this guide does not leave you in exceptional shape.

20x25 pushups?

I would rather see you be able to do 4-6 sets of 70.

Running 6 miles three times a week is good. You don’t want to get hurt. However, when I was in the worst part of SWCC school I was running/rucking minimum 16 miles a day, Monday through Friday.
 
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AWP

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Running 6 miles three times a week is good. You don’t want to get hurt. However, when I was in the worst part of SWCC school I was running/rucking minimum 16 miles a day, Monday through Friday.
]

Playing "devils advocate" here for lack of a better term, what are your opinions regarding mileage per week leading up to SWCC/ Recruit Training? Knowing what you and know without giving away standards, what do you recommend everyone shoot for? Ballpark.
 

Arf

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]

Playing "devils advocate" here for lack of a better term, what are your opinions regarding mileage per week leading up to SWCC/ Recruit Training? Knowing what you and know without giving away standards, what do you recommend everyone shoot for? Ballpark.

The “standard” is bi weekly timed 3 and 4 mile runs. The problem is, by the time you run these timed runs, you have already ran for half the day. You are also broken and beaten down from getting your @#% kicked all through the week. It’s important to be able to run serious mileage before you get to selection, so that way you can survive the timed runs when the time comes.

I’m a big believer in doing three days a week while you are training. Having those days in between to recover really helps you get stronger and build, rather than just break down.

I do think 6 miles 3 times a week is a good starting point. I would like to see people ramp up to 9 if they can do so slowly and without any pain. 12 even better.
At some point you can start doing slow 1 mile recovery runs on your off days and very slowly amp up the slow mileage but that is if you are really feeling good.

If it hurts, don’t do it. There will be a time to push through the pain when you get to selection. Now is the time to take your time and stay injury free.

The more miles you can do without pain the better your chances are. The biggest thing that gets guys in any of these SOF pipelines are running injuries. You just can’t get around running all day.

Thanks for the great question @AWP !
 
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