Coast Guard Sniper Grads

AWP

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#3
I think it is great they attended and passed, but this?

The Coast Guard now enjoys open seating in Army Sniper School.
How many guys in a B4 slot need the school, but now they have to compete with the USCG for a date? I see the need for this type of training, a one-off event kind of thing while they stand up their own program, but to take slots from the Army is madness. Put a couple of guys through the different schools, hold a meeting of the minds, and then stand up a USCG version, but don't take away from guys who are #1 on their unit's merit list and waiting and waiting....
 

Etype

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#4
I think it is great they attended and passed, but this?



How many guys in a B4 slot need the school, but now they have to compete with the USCG for a date? I see the need for this type of training, a one-off event kind of thing while they stand up their own program, but to take slots from the Army is madness. Put a couple of guys through the different schools, hold a meeting of the minds, and then stand up a USCG version, but don't take away from guys who are #1 on their unit's merit list and waiting and waiting....
There are more than enough retired/former sniper/recce guys who could stand up a school tailored to the USCGs needs.
 

Red Flag 1

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#5
What ever the Coast Guard tasking is, sending their men through Sniper School says a lot about their willingness to reach the gold standard every other US Army Sniper does. While we don't know what their specific taskings are, SEAL snipers onboard showed the need, in at least one setting.

The Coast Guard does quite a bit of drug interdiction work, against foes who have the best equipment drug money can buy. Having military trained snipers on our side, helps level the playing field some.

I can agree with @Etype,that a seperate USCG Sniper program may opening up in time. For now, it would seem to stick with an estabished military Sniper School for the credability that it brings with each grad.

It would be great if we had a few USCG members on board. I would like to see what they have to say.
 
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Ocoka

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#6
There are more than enough retired/former sniper/recce guys who could stand up a school tailored to the USCGs needs.
And all they'd need is a range and a shipboard platform to train on a moving deck but maybe that's just too simple for government work.

But it's a good thing, Coastie snipers.

I wonder why they chose the Army's Sniper Course instead of the Marines or the SEALs, being a maritime service?
 
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#7
Im a Coastie, currently an OS3, but have experience at a variety of unit types and figured maybe I could shed some light from my perspective.

For what its worth, most of my co workers are vaguely aware of this achievement, or new skill set. The Coast Guard is experiencing significant changes lately, and sometimes people just focus on the changes to his/her specific rate rather than the branch at large.

From the replies I've seen above, and others I've talked to regarding this new... capability, some people seem to think these PM's will be used for Interdiction and engagements with "Go Fast" boats and drug runners. Red flag 1, you mentioned that the drug runners have the best equipment that drug money can buy, and while that is true, typically speaking Go Fast boats are very cheap fiberglass hulled boats that have storage and big engines. That style of drug interdiction, already has a training program to create our Aviation Gunners (AG's) used at the HITRON Units.

Ocoka One, I cant really give a good answer either way regarding why Army instead of Marines or SEALs courses, but it might be something as simple as the army was the school that accepted the request? As far as the platform needed, a shipboard platform on a moving deck wouldn't really meet the need because the HITRON Units and the AG's shoot from the MH-65C, never from the deck of a cutter. If the target was close enough to the cutter to engage from the deck of the ship different methods would be used.

There is not a whole lot of info that is widely known about the need/use of Snipers in the CG outside of the HITRON applications. However, if I were to speculate, I would guess that they would be utilized more in the PWCS mission the CG does. Typically speaking the CG doesn't use marksmen to engage human targets, but we do protect buildings and assets all the time. Dignitaries, Critical Infrastructure, large public events such as the Super Bowl are all things the CG frequently has a hand in protecting. Another mission the CG has been involved in frequently is Counter Piracy, during this mission the LEDETs deployed with CTF-151. CG MSRT's are our most tactical units, and are trained to respond to all sorts of threats. So having PM capability is just another tool to have in the box if the CG were to need it during any one of our vast mission set.


I hope this didn't come across too wordy or preachy in any way

Watchman
 

Red Flag 1

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#8
I am glad you jumped in here! Your background and prespective is most welcomed. Thanks for your excellent post:thumbsup:.
 
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Diamondback 2/2

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#9
I think it is great they attended and passed, but this?



How many guys in a B4 slot need the school, but now they have to compete with the USCG for a date? I see the need for this type of training, a one-off event kind of thing while they stand up their own program, but to take slots from the Army is madness. Put a couple of guys through the different schools, hold a meeting of the minds, and then stand up a USCG version, but don't take away from guys who are #1 on their unit's merit list and waiting and waiting....
Good post, couldn't agree more.


ETA: I was under the impression that the USCG had their own DM style course. I honestly can't see how the Army's six week school helps them fulfill their mission. I would think the LRM course (2weeks) coupled with a week or two of aerial platform would better suit their requirements. But who knows, I do agree that Army Sniper school slots should go to Army Snipers first, than have a special course to fulfill the foreign nationals and sister service requirements, etc.

$.02
 
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SkrewzLoose

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#10
@TheWatchman , I got to meet a group of your CTF-151 guys a couple of months ago. All were extremely professional and left most of us (our VBSS guys) thinking we had joined the wrong branch.
 
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#11
Good post, couldn't agree more.

ETA: I was under the impression that the USCG had their own DM style course. I honestly can't see how the Army's six week school helps them fulfill their mission. I would think the LRM course (2weeks) coupled with a week or two of aerial platform would better suit their requirements. But who knows, I do agree that Army Sniper school slots should go to Army Snipers first, than have a special course to fulfill the foreign nationals and sister service requirements, etc.

$.02
Coast Guard used to have what they called the DOG (Deployable Operations Group). It was a good idea which got dropped as soon as Admiral Allen retired. Admiral Papp (his replacement) was all about risk aversion and cutting costs. Congress even took him to task for not being able to fulfill primary missions. Papp didn't care. @RB knows a bit about this too.

My guess is (@TheWatchman hit me over the head if I'm wrong here) this might be a quiet way to try acquiring that kind of training. Drug runners notwithstanding, there are still key infrastructure elements which fall under the purview of the USCG. I wouldn't mind knowing someone could take out a threat on or under water within the boundaries of the U.S.
 
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#12
@SkrewzLoose That's cool! There's a few unique CG things like that that are always surprising when you find one that was involved in it. Especially the Astan and Iraq groups

@Dame, that's probably a pretty good guess. The Coast Guard has never really liked (especially lately) the more militaristic side of the house. The anti-piracy and such operations are not widely talked about. It happens, but the CG public affairs people would much rather talk about the 600 bales of cocaine we fished out of the water when the Go Fast threw it overboard. They like talking about Search and Rescue. Not, "Hey! We have snipers!" Even with our boarding teams on rec vessels, its "safety checks" and the law allows us to basically be pirates and board whomever we want, under the reasoning of Safety. But the security zones, escorts, and the ATFP, and such aren't as talked about. Personally, Ive never seen an advertisement or common news source article talking about us guarding GITMO.

@Dame hits a lot of good points about Papp, hes a very nice guy, from my experiences with him, however budget cuts and such have slowly chopped away at a lot of the CG. ADM Z seems to be better, but during all hands with him it comes a cross more as a business of customer service rather than a branch of the Armed Forces.
 
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#13
@SkrewzLoose That's cool! There's a few unique CG things like that that are always surprising when you find one that was involved in it. Especially the Astan and Iraq groups

@Dame, that's probably a pretty good guess. The Coast Guard has never really liked (especially lately) the more militaristic side of the house. The anti-piracy and such operations are not widely talked about. It happens, but the CG public affairs people would much rather talk about the 600 bales of cocaine we fished out of the water when the Go Fast threw it overboard. They like talking about Search and Rescue. Not, "Hey! We have snipers!" Even with our boarding teams on rec vessels, its "safety checks" and the law allows us to basically be pirates and board whomever we want, under the reasoning of Safety. But the security zones, escorts, and the ATFP, and such aren't as talked about. Personally, Ive never seen an advertisement or common news source article talking about us guarding GITMO.

@Dame hits a lot of good points about Papp, hes a very nice guy, from my experiences with him, however budget cuts and such have slowly chopped away at a lot of the CG. ADM Z seems to be better, but during all hands with him it comes a cross more as a business of customer service rather than a branch of the Armed Forces.
Sorry to hear that. Allen was a great leader and I really felt the CG was going in the right direction under his watch. It's a branch of law enforcement that doesn't like to admit they do anything but rescue people.
It's just a personal thing. Bothers the hell out of me. But way above my non-pay grade, LOL. :rolleyes:
 

Cabbage Head

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#14
From the LEO sniper side.... The minimum needed for us is a basic 40hr class and your GTG to start. Monthly training and as many courses as we can get (as long as out departments let us go to them) is all the other training we get.

I would expect USCG to go to something better then us. With the multitude of jobs that they do I feel that they should go to a program that gives them the best training possible...
 
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