Hitting trouble with enlistment contract

RabidMongrel

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Hello all,

I recently have hit a frustrating roadblock in the enlistment process and would like advice from those who have served.

I've been working with the Army on enlistment and I was requesting either and Op 40 or 18 x-ray. I was willing to take either that was available. A little background, I am 29 with a bachelor's degree and about 7 years professional experience in the private sector. Two surgeries, one on my elbow and the other on my knee. About 10 years ago, I was charged with a DWI which was dismissed because a sympathetic judge who was a former Army officer didn't want it to impact my ability to commission (at the time I was in military school).

As you all know, unfortunately the Army considers charges the same as a conviction (I don't agree with that process whatsoever but that's besides the point).

Went to MEPS, took the ASVAB. 96 ON ASVAB, 130 GT score medically qualified and no need for waivers for my elbow or knee. I did however need a moral waiver due to the past infraction.

All of a sudden my recruiter pulls up the job list and there is only 4. You heard that right, 4 jobs available to me. 11x, 92g, 19d, and 88m.

You can imagine the disappointment and slight anger that was in me. My recruiter had not been up front and told me that a moral waiver wouldn't prevent me from other jobs with a security clearance.

I can't get a straight answer from the recruiters in my district office, but I want to know if I will be able to volunteer during OSUT, for either Ranger or SF? My recruiters say of course BUT when I ask them if the same thing that is blocking me from a sec clearance now will block me then they simply say "Dude, once you are in they probably won't care." Unfortunatly, that is not very reassuring or committed.

Is there anyone that can help guide me here? If I take an 11x will I be able to volunteer during OSUT? Or will they see a past charge on my record from a decade ago and say "Sorry, not what we are looking for"?

Look forward to hearing from you all.

Thanks!
 

Ooh-Rah

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As you all know, unfortunately the Army considers charges the same as a conviction
That’s F’ed


My recruiter had not been up front
Said nearly every recruit ever.

BUT when I ask them if the same thing that is blocking me from a sec clearance now will block me then they simply say "Dude, once you are in they probably won't care." Unfortunately, that is not very reassuring or committed.
You’ve learned fast young Grasshopper.
 

RabidMongrel

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That’s F’ed



Said nearly every recruit ever.


You’ve learned fast young Grasshopper.

Thanks for the reply Ooh Rah. I know there is a lot of "what did you expect from a recruiter" in there.

I don't think I'm above anything. Never have in my career. I want to serve. I'm more than ready to start at the bottom and have to prove myself to get to a certain point. In many ways, it's good to be hit with a humbling experience such as this. I would be more than willing to sign an infantry contract because I do know that if you're solid you can volunteer for different things during OSUT BUT the hold up is whether or not the same issue will prevent me from volunteering.

I'm considering talking to the Marines. My father is a former Marine and if I have to be a grunt, I personally prefer doing it in the Marines. No offense to the Army whatsoever, obviously I have been considering joining, but I just feel across the board Marine infantry units have a great reputation, whereas it can be a unit by unit in the Army and per my previous issues I would potentially not be able to volunteer for even an Airborne unit.

I'm going to take the rest of the week and the weekend to gather myself a bit. I won't make a decision with a hot head.

Thanks
 

Seishin

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Your best bet is to hunt around. The services are fat right now and can be extremely particular with who they let into their ranks.

Find you a politician to use, if possible, because after all, politicians don't mind using you. Have them start writing letters and making calls. They do so for far less purposes.

If it's something you truly want, perseverance is the key until it's an absolute "NO" from the branch you want.
 

RabidMongrel

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Your best bet is to hunt around. The services are fat right now and can be extremely particular with who they let into their ranks.

Find you a politician to use, if possible, because after all, politicians don't mind using you. Have them start writing letters and making calls. They do so for far less purposes.

If it's something you truly want, perseverance is the key until it's an absolute "NO" from the branch you want.
Thanks, Vagabond.

I do have a couple political connections (from helping them get elected in my younger years no less haha) to whom I will reach out.

I understand that in our current military even retention is not a priority, which does not bode well for individuals like myself trying to join. I'm going to keep at it because, like I said, I want to serve. I need to serve, and I need to do it before it's too late.

If someone tells me "you can take the infantry contract and your moral waiver will not affect your ability to volunteer during OSUT," then I'm in. 100%. But until then I am hesitant to sign with the Army.
 

RabidMongrel

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11x

The ability to volunteer for something once you start is there.
Search the forums here.
Thanks for the reply DA.

I certainly know that there are plenty of volunteer opportunities when at training for those that are motivated. That's why I am willing to sign that contract.

One thread that I had read concerned med waivers and airborne once enlisted. What I took from that was if you get blocked from a contract because of med waivers then you will probably be blocked too when you are trying to volunteer during training.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything related to if I have a moral waiver issue, whether or not that will stand with unit recruiters or if they'll disregard it for candidates who are motivated and in top shape. My recruiter says that is certainly possible but there was no assurance of that.

I simply don't want to sign up for something in which no matter my level of motivation, I cannot aim higher.
 

Seishin

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...I simply don't want to sign up for something in which no matter my level of motivation, I cannot aim higher...
I won't say that could "never" happen, but the odds are for you that once you get your foot in the door and prove yourself, the doors for other opportunities would open up for you...at least that's my opinion.
 

RabidMongrel

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I won't say that could "never" happen, but the odds are for you that once you get your foot in the door and prove yourself, the doors for other opportunities would open up for you...at least that's my opinion.
That's a good take, Vagabond. I think you are right. I'm actually in my current job because of performance not because of prerequisites.

I just don't know how the military works and whether protocol dictates that it just cannot happen.

Thanks
 

TYW27

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Hey man, not sure if this helps but were there is a will there is a waiver. I'm currently working on building a package to get back in and I have a pretty big medical disqualifier right now. They told me to wait a year, build my package, demonstrate that I can do well off meds, get a brain scan and then try try again.

I don't know what you would need to do to get a moral waiver but I'm sure you can get one. If your recruiter won't help you then find someone who can.

I'm not sure how the Army works, but if you can get in and then try from there why wouldn't you? I'll tell you right now if the Army had told me I had a shot as a cook at getting in, I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat.
 

RabidMongrel

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Hey man, not sure if this helps but were there is a will there is a waiver. I'm currently working on building a package to get back in and I have a pretty big medical disqualifier right now. They told me to wait a year, build my package, demonstrate that I can do well off meds, get a brain scan and then try try again.

I don't know what you would need to do to get a moral waiver but I'm sure you can get one. If your recruiter won't help you then find someone who can.

I'm not sure how the Army works, but if you can get in and then try from there why wouldn't you? I'll tell you right now if the Army had told me I had a shot as a cook at getting in, I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the reply man. The problem is unfortunately not getting the waiver. I can get the waiver, that's not in doubt.

The problem is that apparently, according to what my recruiter says is protocol right now, having a moral waiver upon entrance means I won't be able to enlist with a contract that requires a security clearance i.e. opt 40, 18x, hell even Intel.

So as of right now I would just have to enlist 11x which I'm not opposed to doing at all. I just want to know that when the recruiters from SF or Ranger Batt come around looking for volunteers, I will be able to raise my hand and my moral waiver that was needed for entrance into the Army won't hold me back.

I've heard from some that they could give a damn less about a decade old alcohol charge once I'm in, but haven't heard officially from anyone connected in that world to know if that would be the case.
 

RabidMongrel

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Hey man, not sure if this helps but were there is a will there is a waiver. I'm currently working on building a package to get back in and I have a pretty big medical disqualifier right now. They told me to wait a year, build my package, demonstrate that I can do well off meds, get a brain scan and then try try again.

I don't know what you would need to do to get a moral waiver but I'm sure you can get one. If your recruiter won't help you then find someone who can.

I'm not sure how the Army works, but if you can get in and then try from there why wouldn't you? I'll tell you right now if the Army had told me I had a shot as a cook at getting in, I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat.
But you are right, my attitude should be, "I'm going to take that 11x and run with it and see where it takes me." Hell, I would compromise for just an airborne contract if the would give it to me.
 

TYW27

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The problem is that apparently, according to what my recruiter says is protocol right now, having a moral waiver upon entrance means I won't be able to enlist with a contract that requires a security clearance i.e. opt 40, 18x, hell even Intel.
Have you contacted SORB and asked any of those recruiters? I had to reach out to the 20th SF Group to ask about my situation and they were able to give me some solid info. It sounds like that's who you would need to talk to.
 

RabidMongrel

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Have you contacted SORB and asked any of those recruiters? I had to reach out to the 20th SF Group to ask about my situation and they were able to give me some solid info. It sounds like that's who you would need to talk to.
I hadn't even thought of that. Is it available to civilians? If so, I think that I should probably reach out there. I really appreciate that advice.
 

TYW27

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I hadn't even thought of that. Is it available to civilians? If so, I think that I should probably reach out there. I really appreciate that advice.
I'm not 100% sure. For my situation I was looking into the Guard SF unit. The recruiter I emailed could recruit me from civilian straight into the Guard - so he knew exactly what I needed to get in the Army and get into the SF unit. I'm not sure how SORB works, but let's say you asked the SORB recruiter if your moral waiver would be an issue to securing an 18x contract in OSUT, then they might be able to answer that. You could also try the Guard as an option.
 

GOTWA

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I skimmed, so forgive me. At this point in your life, 11x will not offer you much. It's a young man's game mentally. If it was 2006, sure, but not now. I just had the privilege of working with the 82nd and I cant imagine why anyone would even consider staying in the Army after that experience. Your best bet is to talk to a Guard or Reserve recruiter and see what's available to you. Security clearances are based on the whole individual concept, not the one mistake you made. Time and distance help that. Try for a REP 63 contract or an intel position. if they give you the time of day...pull the trigger.
 

RabidMongrel

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I skimmed, so forgive me. At this point in your life, 11x will not offer you much. It's a young man's game mentally. If it was 2006, sure, but not now. I just had the privilege of working with the 82nd and I cant imagine why anyone would even consider staying in the Army after that experience. Your best bet is to talk to a Guard or Reserve recruiter and see what's available to you. Security clearances are based on the whole individual concept, not the one mistake you made. Time and distance help that. Try for a REP 63 contract or an intel position. if they give you the time of day...pull the trigger.
Thanks for the reply, GOTWA. I appreciate all personal advice you have given. I am definitely aware of what I am choosing to do and what I am giving up. I'm 29, a good job but the thing is that the reasons for me wanting to serve are very personal. Money isn't an issue, being older isn't an issue, it's just something I want, nay, I need to do or else I will regret it.

Guard or Reserve, while great options for many, are not the right option for me. I want to go active duty. And sure, I want to do more than serve in just an Infantry or Airborne unit or else I wouldn't be on this forum, but from referring with many and taking the advice of others on this forum, I'm going to charge ahead with the attitude of I'm ready to serve wherever those cards fall but I'm going to bust my ass to get one of those slots.

I appreciate the advice of someone like yourself who has been there, done that so thank you.

Best
 

Drift

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Hold up, you can't get a moral waiver for 18X? I know 2 guys who were X-Rays that I went through with that had DUI's and required moral waivers. Maybe somethings changed in that last year or 2. I would check with another recruiter. As for being able to volunteer at OSUT if your an 11x, The SORB recruiters came multiple times at the end of OSUT and even at Airborne school in my class.(about 9 months ago) Worse to worse, you enlist 11x go to a line company and put in a packet. In the scheme of things, that's only a few extra months added which is nothing.
good luck
 

RabidMongrel

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Hold up, you can't get a moral waiver for 18X? I know 2 guys who were X-Rays that I went through with that had DUI's and required moral waivers. Maybe somethings changed in that last year or 2. I would check with another recruiter. As for being able to volunteer at OSUT if your an 11x, The SORB recruiters came multiple times at the end of OSUT and even at Airborne school in my class.(about 9 months ago) Worse to worse, you enlist 11x go to a line company and put in a packet. In the scheme of things, that's only a few extra months added which is nothing.
good luck
I'm not sure how things were two years ago, but I have gotten confirmation that it's not by recruiter just trying to fill a quota. It really is protocol that moral waivers can't get an 18xray or Option 40.

It sucks, but ya know what, I'll make due. I want to join the Army and serve, and that's what I'm going to do. Not going to just take my ball and go home.

I've gotten some incredible advice from folks on this site that I couldn't get anywhere else and know now that the moral waiver won't be a hang up for volunteering during OSUT... I just gotta be a leader and a PT stud.

I want to thank everyone for their input and advice. This has been incredibly helpful and I I am extremely grateful to you all and this site.
 
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