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Melbourne attack

CQB

Australian SOF
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#1
Just caught this. Flinders St intersection is one of the busiest in Melbourne.

'It just mowed everybody down': Pedestrians hit by SUV in Melbourne CBD

What really pissed me off is the reporting of the non activation of measures, intimating this is a security failure. There’s bigger fish to fry than pushing a couple of buttons.
Having had to deal with casualties immediately instead of adhering to a protocol is a moot point.
 

Agoge

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#3
Unfortunately, this is the new and easiest method for the homegrowns to use. It takes no training, no brain power, and no one else to be involved other than yourself.

I suspect there will be more of these...especially around holidays due to the number of people out-and-about.
 

CQB

Australian SOF
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#10
An Australian Imam says it all.

Interesting, I’d say the Imam is on the right side of history. At the time of the Lindt Cafe incident in Sydney an Iranian I talked to was amazed it took so long to resolve, saying that if that happened in Tehran they wouldn’t have lasted half an hour, run up a black flag, that’s it, game over.
The difficult part is observing and reacting to radicalisation, be it a quick or slow process. Harder still is identifying those with mental issues such as the current miscreant.
In Sydney the Law & Order Riot Squad has now been issued with M4s so perhaps the good Imam will get his wish.
 
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Serenity

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109
#11
That Imam’s rant is annoying to me. I worked not far from where this happened and left about the right time, but fortunately, I headed in a different direction to go home. Didn’t realize all this happened until my husband told me later. Didn’t realize how close it was until I finally checked those messages sent by concerned colleagues that had my phone buzzing at the time.

To be blunt, before terrorism, I feel at greater risk from druggies and perverts than I do the terrorist. Also, not sure why I would worry about the ‘spread’ of crazy, vindictive or unhappy people. You can’t exactly get rid of that very human problem. If it’s not terrorism, it’s something else. Loserdom is prolific and terrorism is just a convenient fit for some. I don’t feel we’re anymore immune than any other country from crazy, depressed, angry people.

I’m certainly not going to stop going about my life. I think our government is doing their best and I feel so fortunate to live where I do. Today, I read all the criticism about the terror alert system. I just wished someone would pile all these complainers onto a boat and ship them out sea. They can deal with refugee problem themselves.

And why the heck would we even pause to consider how Tehran treat their people?! I also spoke to an Iranian recently and he did not like their government at all. He came to Australia for a better family life, for his daughter. We have standards here, and there’s such a thing as scope creep.
 

CQB

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#12
I’m very pleased that you missed it. I’m sure there’s bleating about holes in security locally where you are, but for my money there’s no such thing as perfect security. If someone tells you it’s perfect two things are true; they’re either lying or they’re trying to sell you something and there will always be critics. We have a similar system in Sydney that was discreetly installed about two years ago. Never been used & in a situation like the one in Melbourne I doubt activation would have improved matters.
As for the mentally unstable, there isn’t a lot you can do really, just manage it best you can.
Going about you daily life is the best thing you can do...not be terrorised which an event like that was meant to do.
 

RackMaster

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#13
Using Western values to counter an ancient and violent culture has not worked. The only thing that some of these cultures understand and respect is strength. Those with the biggest stick and eye for an eye. This Imam is one of them and understands.
 

Ocoka

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#14
Using Western values to counter an ancient and violent culture has not worked. TThe only thing that some of these cultures understand and respect is strength. Those with the biggest stick and eye for an eye. This Imam is one of them and understands.

The Imam is talking about Saudi or Sharia-style justice in Western/Liberal nations. But even the Saudi's now have checks and balances that often declaw their punishments:

Saudi Justice, Harsh but Able to Spare the Sword

It's our fate to be restrained by our own rules while our enemies take advantage. That's one reason why, as @CQB says, "there's no such thing as perfect security."
 
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Serenity

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#15
@CQB

I don’t think our security is perfect, did I say it was? I said I feel safe in the knowlege that authorities are doing their job. I have no doubt a few will slip through the cracks and cause some havoc. But I fail to see how our authorities are going to have a lightbulb moment listening to this Imam rant. I’m still trying to figure out what suggestions does the people of this forum who agree with him expect our authorities to take on board. What reasonable and actionable steps can be taken from his rant, besides he knows his people? It’s so easy for people to passively agree to his angry statements, but what would they suggest to be implemented?

Also, I like these new initiatives. Whether they end up using the alert system or not, I see no harm in having them there. I’m not going to complain about being more informed. That very morning when the incident happened, I was actually thinking how crowded the streets were. I had jumped onto the road multiple times to overtake smokers. If there was trouble further down the street, I’d want to know about it, so I can turn around and re-route. The fact that they choose not to use it, doesn’t mean it won’t be helpful when they do, if given sufficient reason. So I’m going to disagree with you. The CIRT seems to be an appropriate addition to stepping up law enforcement. I’m certainly not going to complain having a stronger police presence to manage crowds. Crowds are scary. Which brings me to my next gripe.

Above there was a stab made at 16 officers who responded were on their first day on the job. I was just confused why this is a point of criticism. Isn’t the CBD also a training ground for new officers doing traffic control? Many were probably already in the vicinity? Maybe directing traffic? A car just ran tried to run over people after all... What more can experienced officers do here other than redirecting people and controlling the scene. Isn’t it a good thing new officers are getting valuable experience? I’m happy to see any police patrolling the streets, and I’ve really come to appreciate the PSOs at our stations. So what’s this thin blue line? What’s been criticised here? That we don’t have enough police or that we’re trying to recruit and train more police? I haven’t noticed a shortage, actually, it’s been the opposite lately. To me, the average citizen, they seem to be everywhere and generally doing a good job.

I’ve got no complaints with how things are being handled so far.
 

policemedic

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#16
That Imam’s rant is annoying to me. I worked not far from where this happened and left about the right time, but fortunately, I headed in a different direction to go home. Didn’t realize all this happened until my husband told me later. Didn’t realize how close it was until I finally checked those messages sent by concerned colleagues that had my phone buzzing at the time.
You should be thankful that someone in his position with his native understanding of that community is willing to share his perspective. It also seems your situational awareness needs to be improved.

To be blunt, before terrorism, I feel at greater risk from druggies and perverts than I do the terrorist. Also, not sure why I would worry about the ‘spread’ of crazy, vindictive or unhappy people. You can’t exactly get rid of that very human problem. If it’s not terrorism, it’s something else. Loserdom is prolific and terrorism is just a convenient fit for some. I don’t feel we’re anymore immune than any other country from crazy, depressed, angry people.
Why be concerned about the spread of terrorists, Muslim hardliners, and sharia practitioners? Dunno. Allowing virtually unchecked immigration, growth of enclaves, and the like has worked out quite well for Germany, Paris, and the UK.



I said I feel safe in the knowlege that authorities are doing their job. I have no doubt a few will slip through the cracks and cause some havoc. But I fail to see how our authorities are going to have a lightbulb moment listening to this Imam rant. I’m still trying to figure out what suggestions does the people of this forum who agree with him expect our authorities to take on board. What reasonable and actionable steps can be taken from his rant, besides he knows his people? It’s so easy for people to passively agree to his angry statements, but what would they suggest to be implemented?
I wonder if people who use the phrase "feel safe" understand that feeling safe is quite a bit different than actually being safe. In fact, the two are often contradictory...people feel safe at Disney World or in airports because of metal detectors and security theater, but neither of these things provide actual safety or security.

There are numerous things Australia could do to improve its security vis a vis terrorism and crime in general that don't involve the imam's recommendation for summary executions (although stricter measures would certainly be helpful). The off-duty policeman who was the first one to lay hands on this terrorist was unarmed, something that would be highly unlikely (and a matter of personal choice) for an American police officer. Australian police have been demanding the the ability to have body armor and to carry weapons off-duty for their own safety and that of the Australian public, but they are routinely denied--particularly in Queensland. If you want a recommendation, look no further than that.


Also, I like these new initiatives. Whether they end up using the alert system or not, I see no harm in having them there. I’m not going to complain about being more informed. That very morning when the incident happened, I was actually thinking how crowded the streets were. I had jumped onto the road multiple times to overtake smokers. If there was trouble further down the street, I’d want to know about it, so I can turn around and re-route.

I’ve got no complaints with how things are being handled so far.
Being informed and aware is a good thing, yet you say you were not cognizant of what was happening despite being in the area during the event and having multiple people text you about what was going on to see if you were safe.

I mention this not to chide you, but to emphasize that safety--which is your responsibility, not the government's--begins with situational awareness.
 

CQB

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#17
I may have said this before elsewhere here but these attacks affect Muslims as much as those of nominally other faiths, so it's good to see someone else speak out. I hope he keeps it up. I'm in agreement with @policemedic as the previous post wasn't meant to be personal. There's different opinions here and all are respected.
 

GEOLERO

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Dec 30, 2017
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#18
The Imam is so correct, when will our western leaders realise that the so called human rights is one sided.
If anyone can please proof to me that there is one case where a Christian received any human rights from any Jihadist regime or individuals.
 

Serenity

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#19
@policemedic

I don’t feel chided, and I’m appreciative that you took the time to respond. But if you’re under the impression that I wander around life living under a false sense of security, and that it’s someone else’s job to keep me safe, then you’re mistaken. I take my personal security seriously, and coming from a paranoid female, I’m feeling calm about the terrorism risk in Melbourne.

Also, I wasn’t aware of the event because no one in my area was aware at the time.
It was a deliberate decision not to answer my work phone, but I do carry two phones. Answering my work phone when it rang would not have changed anything. I had actually spoken to my husband at the time on my personal phone. He was still at work and was not aware of the incident until he heard the sirens later. I was alerted on my phone about some disription relating to trains that were unrelated. There’s nothing I could have done that day that would have made me more situationally aware of a situation unfolding elsewhere. But in my opinion, a loudspeaker is a handy option to have. Why would empowering people with information be considered a negative? Feeling safe to me in the context of this thread means I have confidence in our local authorities are trying to do their job. That’s all I can expect. At no point did I say I’m safe from all risks, that I don’t take personal responsibility for my own safety. I’m not going to get into a circular debate about feeling safe vs being safe, but I’m inclined to disagree with you.

Anyway, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be grateful for. I don’t know digrar and I do like CQB, but I’m always going to be interested in their opinions. People who think they know better can certainly disregard the fact I’m a content citizen who travel regularly through these areas. We’re far from perfect, but we’re still apparently the most liveable city in the world.

World's most liveable city: Melbourne takes top spot for seventh year running - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

That might mean nothing to some, but it’s a strong indication to me our city is doing well. I’m proud of our multiculturalism, and I’m not going to get excited about a ranty vid that seems to state the obvious type of angry opionions. I know you’re well intended, but I’m outta steam on this topic.
 

Kraut783

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#20
I've had the unique opportunity to work with AFP and VicPol over the past couple of years, spent some time over there and over here with them. Good blokes and their JCTT is very on top of things, there are some growing pains with the AFP/JCTT and their relationship with ASIO, but it's getting better. I have strong feelings that they will sort things, very professional and some great resources.

Of note: while their law enforcement has off-duty arrest powers....no off duty carry. In my opinion that is a mistake...but, it was the path their country chose, it could change, but will be a slow process if it does.