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MoH to be awarded to SOCM Slabinski

Marauder06

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#2
I read about that earlier, and I have mixed feelings. It seems to me that some might see this as the MOH being a consolation prize for ops gone wrong, or a political tool, rather than a legit award. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 

NavyBuyer

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#3
My own thought is that you shouldn't punish a Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, or Marine on the ground for recovering from a shitty situation and making what they think is the best attempt to move forward (assumig they are fighting ethically). Yes, it's easy to arm chair General and critique afterwards, but bullets and RPGs require you to make a split second decision and you live with whatever decision you make. It may not always the best decision but unlike a video game, you can't pause what's going on around you and strategize. This is why you debrief afterwards and discuss.
 

amlove21

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#7
Chappy's family still makes cookies for deployed dudes. I've met Slab and heard his version of events first hand, out on the Island.

That being said- what the fuck man.
 

Teufel

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#8
NSW has a history of throwing medals at tragedies.

Meanwhile Rafael Peralta still hasn’t been awarded the Medal of Honor for pulling a grenade to his chest and giving his life to save his squad mates.
 
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NavyBuyer

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#11

Devildoc

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#12
I believe he currently holds a Navy Cross for the same action. I kinda agree with @Marauder06 , impressive it might be, does it warrant The Medal? It seems they are splitting hairs to give it to him and it seems to be politically motivated. To speak to @Teufel 's comments, other studs do the deed and get less acclaim.
 

AWP

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#13
Upgrading from a service cross has a number of precedents, so this isn't unusual. Seeing two such "upgrades" for the same battle in less than a week is unusual.

Even last year's Intercept article which blasts ST6 and Slabinski stated that his Navy Cross wasn't high enough.

This wouldn't be a blip on the radar if it wasn't for ST6's drama and the massively negative hype cloud over SEALs in general right now. Eh, they made the bed, I hope the book and movie deals were worth it.
 

Devildoc

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#14
Upgrading from a service cross has a number of precedents, so this isn't unusual. Seeing two such "upgrades" for the same battle in less than a week is unusual.

Even last year's Intercept article which blasts ST6 and Slabinski stated that his Navy Cross wasn't high enough.

This wouldn't be a blip on the radar if it wasn't for ST6's drama and the massively negative hype cloud over SEALs in general right now. Eh, they made the bed, I hope the book and movie deals were worth it.
Upgrading I know. I can see how it is another example in the slobbering love affair with NSW. ST6 indeed made their bed, but now they ant to be all lippy about criticism. Can't have it both ways. But their is no love lost between ST6 and STS24 and this whole MOH thing is icing that cake.
 

Ooh-Rah

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#15
Upgrading I know. I can see how it is another example in the slobbering love affair with NSW. ST6 indeed made their bed, but now they ant to be all lippy about criticism. Can't have it both ways. But their is no love lost between ST6 and STS24 and this whole MOH thing is icing that cake.
Followed this when it happened, remember the aftermath. Went back and read the relevant links this morning; my Reader's Digest interpretation:

- Chapman was behind the lines and calling for help.
- ST6 (Slabinski) got to the injured Chapman and under fire, made the determination that Chapman was dead, and pulled back; leaving Chapman.
- After being left, Chapman got back into the fight and was eventually killed.
- SEAL's refuse to believe Chapman was not dead when they left him
- Video is eventually released that supports AF's claims
- SEAL's did not want Chapman do get MOH because it would (in their eyes) make them look bad
- Air Force do not want Slabinski to get MOH because (in their eyes) he left their man behind.
- Folks are pissed that under the muddy circumstances that the Navy would even consider writing their man up for the MOH
- Perception by many is that Navy is only doing this to "save face" for the SEAL's and balance the score. (in their eyes).

Yes?
No?
Pretty close?
 

Devildoc

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#16
Followed this when it happened, remember the aftermath. Went back and read the relevant links this morning; my Reader's Digest interpretation:

- Chapman was behind the lines and calling for help.
- ST6 (Slabinski) got to the injured Chapman and under fire, made the determination that Chapman was dead, and pulled back; leaving Chapman.
- After being left, Chapman got back into the fight and was eventually killed.
- SEAL's refuse to believe Chapman was not dead when they left him
- Video is eventually released that supports AF's claims
- SEAL's did not want Chapman do get MOH because it would (in their eyes) make them look bad
- Air Force do not want Slabinski to get MOH because (in their eyes) he left their man behind.
- Folks are pissed that under the muddy circumstances that the Navy would even consider writing their man up for the MOH
- Perception by many is that Navy is only doing this to "save face" for the SEAL's and balance the score. (in their eyes).

Yes?
No?
Pretty close?
Golf claps for an excellent summation...
 

Ooh-Rah

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#17
Daily Mail just picked up the story. Does not paint the SEAL's in very good light:

Navy SEALs try to block Medal of Honor recommendation for airman | Daily Mail Online

A bitter dispute has erupted between two sections of the US Armed Forces over whether President Trump should agree to grant a Medal of Honor recommendation to an airman for his actions during a disastrous mission in Afghanistan.

The Air Force say Technical Sergeant John Chapman should receive the award for heroically fighting Al-Qaeda fighters for an hour after being left for dead by a team of Navy Seals in March 2002, citing a new analysis of drone footage as evidence.

But the SEALs have angrily insisted Chapman had already been killed by the time they retreated and have been lobbying against the Air Force’s application to grant him the posthumous award. Six other US died during the mission, named Anaconda.

'The SEALs did not want to be told—officially—that they left a comrade on that mountain alive,' a former defense official told Newsweek.

The Air Force, meanwhile, insist Chapman deserved the honor for what they believe was a heroic last stand and say the SEALs are just trying to protect their reputation.

They are also furious that the SEAL commander accused of leaving him for dead, Chief Britt Slabinski, will himself receive the top award at the White House this week, it was announced on Monday.
 

amlove21

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#18
Followed this when it happened, remember the aftermath. Went back and read the relevant links this morning; my Reader's Digest interpretation:

- Chapman was behind the lines and calling for help.
- ST6 (Slabinski) got to the injured Chapman and under fire, made the determination that Chapman was dead, and pulled back; leaving Chapman.
- After being left, Chapman got back into the fight and was eventually killed.
- SEAL's refuse to believe Chapman was not dead when they left him
- Video is eventually released that supports AF's claims
- SEAL's did not want Chapman do get MOH because it would (in their eyes) make them look bad
- Air Force do not want Slabinski to get MOH because (in their eyes) he left their man behind.
- Folks are pissed that under the muddy circumstances that the Navy would even consider writing their man up for the MOH
- Perception by many is that Navy is only doing this to "save face" for the SEAL's and balance the score. (in their eyes).

Yes?
No?
Pretty close?
Pretty damn close.
 

DA SWO

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#19
Daily Mail just picked up the story. Does not paint the SEAL's in very good light:

Navy SEALs try to block Medal of Honor recommendation for airman | Daily Mail Online

A bitter dispute has erupted between two sections of the US Armed Forces over whether President Trump should agree to grant a Medal of Honor recommendation to an airman for his actions during a disastrous mission in Afghanistan.

The Air Force say Technical Sergeant John Chapman should receive the award for heroically fighting Al-Qaeda fighters for an hour after being left for dead by a team of Navy Seals in March 2002, citing a new analysis of drone footage as evidence.

But the SEALs have angrily insisted Chapman had already been killed by the time they retreated and have been lobbying against the Air Force’s application to grant him the posthumous award. Six other US died during the mission, named Anaconda.

'The SEALs did not want to be told—officially—that they left a comrade on that mountain alive,' a former defense official told Newsweek.

The Air Force, meanwhile, insist Chapman deserved the honor for what they believe was a heroic last stand and say the SEALs are just trying to protect their reputation.

They are also furious that the SEAL commander accused of leaving him for dead, Chief Britt Slabinski, will himself receive the top award at the White House this week, it was announced on Monday.
There is an easy way to see who is correct and who isn't.
Release any Pred footage that may exist.
 

AWP

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#20
There is an easy way to see who is correct and who isn't.
Release any Pred footage that may exist.
The footage supports Chapman’s nod and just about anyone who has seen it will agree he was still alive. I’ve seen the arguments that Al Q had a Blue on Blue moment instead of engaging Chapman, but I think it is crap.

I’ve seen the footage and firmly believe Chapman was alive.

The more I think about it, the more this seems like a tit for tat award process as a political compromise. This isn’t close to the first time where the MOH was politicized.