New pipeline for TACP

Viper1

Special Forces
Verified SOF
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
2,255
Location
PNW
Female soldiers will soon undergo a one-time assessment at the Army Ranger School, set to start in April with about 60 female volunteers on board. Those who graduate the course will receive a Ranger tab, officials have said.
Q - Is this the same Ranger course that the men attend?
A: I hope so. The Pre-Ranger course at Bragg seems to be the same. 4 women at Bragg are currently in Pre-Ranger, having passed day-0 entry here. Former teammates of mine are in the class and verified all events were given to the same standard. Originally, 12 started and only 4 made it. The guys had no complaints about the four who did.
Q - I wonder if there is a requirement, (official or unofficial) that a certain % pass?
A: No idea, and I hope not. That would cheapen the experience and be an insult to the women and men attending.
Q - With the Ranger tab, would they then be considered SOF?
A: Not unless they serve in one of the three Ranger Battalions, SF Group, CA, or MISO. Earning the Ranger tab means you are Ranger-qualified, nothing more. I went from Ranger School to mechanized infantry for four years before attending the Q Course.
 

Ooh-Rah

Marine
Moderator
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
10,775
@Viper1 , thank you for the response. One follow up question in regards to the Ranger tab. Up until today I had always believed that a Ranger is a Ranger, is there a way to tell by looking at the tab whether or not a person has completed the Q course or is only Ranger-qualified?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arf

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
Administrator
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
14,839
Location
Not Afghanistan
We already have a similar discussion (Women and the Tab) elsewhere. Let's go back to the OP.
 

Wild Bill

TACP
Unverified
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
22
Can you imagine the smell coming from her after a month with no good shower? Just wet wipes. i smell bad enough. I think I just vurped. Or is it vurpped. Could give away your position. Would they carry feminine products in the med kit or new type of MRE's. I've got my tobasco and this. Could plug a hole in the Hoover Dam or bullet wound.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
Administrator
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
14,839
Location
Not Afghanistan
Ok, we already have a similar discussion (Women and the Tab) elsewhere. Let's go back to the OP.
 

CDG

Mittens
Verified Military
Joined
Apr 15, 2011
Messages
7,217
Location
Off safe. One away.
SSMP
SOF Mentor
I remember while at Hurby, instructors asking what shitbags were not cutting the mustard. Mysteriously, they 5E out....hmmmm
It's still the same. Or they come up juuuuuuust a little shy on their push-ups during the PT test. Everyone has their 10% though, as I know you are well aware.
 

KH

Unverified
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
8
Wow, I'm impressed with how far this career field has come. Any updates to a new pipeline? I scanned through the recently updated CFETP and read that JTAC is a 5-level requirement now (awesome!), but it appears that the "pipeline" is still the same as when I was in (except for the addition of the prep course).
 

JMsmith

Unverified
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6
Ive seen multiple instances of "please post this in a relevant thread that has already been created" and "why would you necro post?" with other users, therefore ill choose the latter and knock out a set if I'm in the wrong.
Furthermore, CDG, the seeming in house resident TACP has been away for over a year, which is why I didnt just DM him.

With that said:
I spoke to an ANG AGR TACP today who stated that he discovered on 31 July that the TACP school house now includes the JTAC QC and is required for graduation, thus saving months of waiting for a JTAC QC slot. Any truth to this?

Research conducted:

ROMAD.com

AFSPECWAR

Current TACP CFETP (dated 1 July 2017)

Hopefully I covered my bases.
 

AlphaVictor

Verified Military
Joined
May 29, 2018
Messages
5
Ive seen multiple instances of "please post this in a relevant thread that has already been created" and "why would you necro post?" with other users, therefore ill choose the latter and knock out a set if I'm in the wrong.
Furthermore, CDG, the seeming in house resident TACP has been away for over a year, which is why I didnt just DM him.

With that said:
I spoke to an ANG AGR TACP today who stated that he discovered on 31 July that the TACP school house now includes the JTAC QC and is required for graduation, thus saving months of waiting for a JTAC QC slot. Any truth to this?

Research conducted:

ROMAD.com

AFSPECWAR

Current TACP CFETP (dated 1 July 2017)

Hopefully I covered my bases.
The answer is sort of. They have been trying for a while to make QC part of the pipeline, but it hasn't really been possible yet. Especially on the Guard side, I can say confidently you will not be going straight to QC without at least going to your unit for a spin up. You will be grateful for this time, as the guys who go straight to QC without any training from their unit sometimes do very poorly and even wash out, thus burning a valuable slot. No point in saving months sending someone to QC right away if he's going to fail because he doesn't know what he's doing.
 
Last edited:

JMsmith

Unverified
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6
The answer is sort of. They have been trying for a while to make QC part of the pipeline, but it hasn't really been possible yet. Especially on the Guard side, I can say confidently you will not be going straight to QC without at least going to your unit for a spin up. You will be grateful for this time, as the guys who go straight to QC without any training from their unit sometimes do very poorly and even wash out, thus burning a valuable slot. No point in saving months sending someone to QC right away if he's going to fail because he doesn't know what he's doing.
Got it, thanks for the response!
 

Johca

Pararescue
Verified SOF
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
352
Location
Anchorage Alaska
Well the new TACP training detachment is recent, but it follows AFSOC's Advanced Skills Training concepts and model: ---> Special Tactics Training Squadron. This training squadron was formerly known as the Advanced Skills Training Flight. The concept model is " final phase of training for combat controllers and special tactics officers before they depart for operational special tactics squadrons." Just replace Special Tactics squadron with the more generic operational combat line unit and the similarities become more transparent.

Such courses are better described five level upgrade training course more so than an entry pipeline course required for award of 3-skill level. Scrutiny of the AFECD reveals both SERE and airborne is a requirement for award of TACP 3-level AFSC. SERE has been a requirement for decades, but airborne became a requirement for award for any and all TACP skill levels (including 3-level) effective no earlier than 3 March 2017. Thus these two courses are completed before starting training day one of the new TACP training detachment course being discussed.
 
Last edited:

Patient Candidate

Unverified
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
3
Thanks for the insight! I also see the consistent reference to TACP as Special Warfare (newer articles by AF), but my understanding is that there is still a clear dilineation between SOF (STS) and conventional TACP... At least on the active duty side.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
Administrator
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
14,839
Location
Not Afghanistan
People worry about this course or that course, but no one thinks about what a ruck starts doing to your body after about 8-10 miles. "I'm in the best shape of my life!" The pool and the ruck do not care and they see into men's souls harder and deeper than any prophet...
 

ilikeairplanes12

Unverified
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
8
If the pipeline will be reduced from 18 months to 22 weeks, any clue on what is being removed? Will SW prep be taken out?
 

DA SWO

SOWT
Verified SOF
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
8,973
Location
San Antonio Texas
If the pipeline will be reduced from 18 months to 22 weeks, any clue on what is being removed? Will SW prep be taken out?
I don't believe Prep is counted in the 22 weeks.
It's possible to get all events into a 22 week school.
Currently guys (and gals) graduate and go to their unit to get certified. Local procedures, a "check ride" and other mission focused training. How long it takes depends on aircraft availability, unit taskings, etc, range availability, etc. Lots of downtime in that 18 months.
 

ilikeairplanes12

Unverified
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
8
Interesting, I was thinking that SW prep would be removed as it involves many skills such as water con that aren’t really applicable to TACP. Among other things that are over specialized that make the training time longer which as the article mentions affects the Army which heavily relies on TACPs and hurts the production rate as more people will drop when you add more specialized training to the pipeline.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
Administrator
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
14,839
Location
Not Afghanistan
Interesting, I was thinking that SW prep would be removed as it involves many skills such as water con that aren’t really applicable to TACP. Among other things that are over specialized that make the training time longer which as the article mentions affects the Army which heavily relies on TACPs and hurts the production rate as more people will drop when you add more specialized training to the pipeline.
You're basing this on what military experience?

Water confidence goes a long way outside of the pool. Besides, you know how many soldiers have drowned in Iraq and Afghanistan?
 

ilikeairplanes12

Unverified
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
8
Water Confidence may very well mean a lot outside of the pool but at the end of the day can hold up the production rate of TACPs which will hurt big army. You make a good point of the purpose of teaching water con for surviving in life or death situations but that shouldn’t involve weeks of training involving underwater, 500s, etcs instead such should involve gear-dismounts in water and just being able to survive in water rather than becoming Micheal Phillips.
 
Top