Orlando shooting

AWP

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Why did they guy drive 2+ hours to Orlando when West Palm and Lauderdale have their own gay clubs?
 

Ooh-Rah

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This event changes nothing for me in how I feel about the political situation of this country, what the news feeds will or will not report, and how I feel about both radical Islam and my good friend who is Islamic and called me this morning in tears.

What it does do is reenforce to me how blessed I feel to live in MN where my carry-permit legally allows me to carry pretty much anywhere I want, regardless of posting. (or face a fine of $25 if I don't leave when asked).

Soft targets scare me - I have been getting lax at the gym. Fanny pack goes back into place today.
 

Poccington

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Sickening act, may that cunt rot in hell.

RIP to the fallen.
 

ke4gde

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This event changes nothing for me in how I feel about the political situation of this country, what the news feeds will or will not report, and how I feel about both radical Islam and my good friend who is Islamic and called me this morning in tears.

What it does do is reenforce to me how blessed I feel to live in MN where my carry-permit legally allows me to carry pretty much anywhere I want, regardless of posting. (or face a fine of $25 if I don't leave when asked).

Soft targets scare me - I have been getting lax at the gym. Fanny pack goes back into place today.
I agree, a big reason why I avoid the no carry places as often as possible. I have always said those large venues are a target rich environment. Worse, most of those venues only hire the minimum amount of security or LE required to save money.

While Florida has generally lax carry restrictions, they do not allow for carry in clubs (rightly so since alcohol is involved), and they allow businesses to restrict carry on their property (however, they are not usually held liable for patron safety).
 

Rapid

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Not really. In the hierarchy of victims, Islam trumps trans, trumps cis gay/lesbian, trumps bi, trumps straight. Anyone that tries to make this Stonewall 2.0 is going to be branded as Hitler meets Trixie Mattel. If they can't completely blame islamophobia, it will merely become an anti-2A issue.

LGBT rights end where the Quran begins.
Oh I agree. I never thought they were 'equal', in the eyes of lefties, at all. But they're still going to have to do some mental gymnastics to justify what's happened. It may even push some people to vote for Trump, perhaps even some of the LGBT crowd.
 

Etype

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It's funny that the media doesn't want to say terrorism early in these cases, but if a black guy gets killed by a cop race is immediately brought into question.
 

Ooh-Rah

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While Florida has generally lax carry restrictions, they do not allow for carry in clubs (rightly so since alcohol is involved), and they allow businesses to restrict carry on their property (however, they are not usually held liable for patron safety).
In Minnesota, you may carry in clubs (although many have started using wands and metal detectors). To add, I carry into bars and restaurants where alcohol is served and will occasionally nurse a beer while my friends/family go much further. (legal is less that 0.04%). My rule of thumb is one beer per hour - to ensure that if I did have to use my gun, I would not have to worry about being accused of being "drunk" while carrying.
 

ke4gde

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On a positive note, I am impressed with the apparent cooperation between all of the agencies involved in incident. Even more so my the citizens lining up for blocks to donate blood. Bravo Orlando. Bravo.
 

Etype

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FUCK!!! Just saw on Fox News, cops arrived while he was still shooting and were order to take cover.

If this is true, this is bullshit. The same thing happened at VA Tech. Fox showed over and over again, a cop outside taking cover behind a tree while you could hear shots being fired inside.

It's the job of law enforcement to protect the good guys from the bad. You may get shot, and you may be killed, but duty calls.
 

DA SWO

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Why did they guy drive 2+ hours to Orlando when West Palm and Lauderdale have their own gay clubs?
Which bar is bigger?
Hit the larger target, get more victims (press)
And Trump gains 3 points in next week's polls.

The media spin-machine is already running in full rage. The dude's daddy is being quoted as saying that his son saw two-men kissing and was engaged by it. You wait, this will be turned into an anti-gay hate-crime. Shame on us for allowing his name to permit us to think otherwise.

'Islamic extremist' shoots dead at least 50 at Florida gay club
Clear hate crime, he hates gays; let's just call it Islamic Violence.
 

Salt USMC

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Oh I agree. I never thought they were 'equal', in the eyes of lefties, at all. But they're still going to have to do some mental gymnastics to justify what's happened. It may even push some people to vote for Trump, perhaps even some of the LGBT crowd.
Homophobia is homophobia no matter who perpetrates it, and murder is murder. Nobody is trying to "justify" anything.
 

Ooh-Rah

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FUCK!!! Just saw on Fox News, cops arrived while he was still shooting and were order to take cover.

If this is true, this is bullshit. The same thing happened at VA Tech. Fox showed over and over again, a cop outside taking cover behind a tree while you could hear shots being fired inside.

It's the job of law enforcement to protect the good guys from the bad. You may get shot, and you may be killed, but duty calls.
Apparently this cop got your memo and engaged -

Orlando Police say this Kevlar helmet saved life of one of their officers during nightclub shooting -
upload_2016-6-12_10-32-17.png
 

Etype

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Fucking 3 hours from start to finish.

Cowardice through inaction.

Plain and simple.

Police chief was just on TV saying they had to wait for armored vehicles.

You're in Orlando, not Iraq.
 
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ke4gde

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FUCK!!! Just saw on Fox News, cops arrived while he was still shooting and were order to take cover.

If this is true, this is bullshit. The same thing happened at VA Tech.

It's the job of law enforcement to protect the good guys from the bad. You may get shot, and you may be killed, but duty calls.
Agreed, but they are not trained to rush in willy nilly. The protocol typically taught in Florida for an active shooter is for the first 4 officers to immediately form an entry team and advance, with the fifth taking incident command to direct other incoming units. If a hostage situation emerges and a suspect is barricaded, then typically the protocol is containment until SWAT arrives. Since the source is Fox, I wouldn't put much stock in it yet. As I understand it the off duty cop at the club was the first to engage the bad guy.

I am looking forward to the after action review and the resulting training changes that will arise from the lessons learned here.
 

Florida173

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Seems Facebook is giving options for people that live there to "mark" themselves as being safe. Is that a new thing? Or just first time one of these type events has happened in a place where I'm from?
 

macNcheese

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Seems Facebook is giving options for people that live there to "mark" themselves as being safe. Is that a new thing? Or just first time one of these type events has happened in a place where I'm from?
It's been around for a while. They use it for natural disasters too
 

Etype

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Agreed, but they are not trained to rush in willy nilly. The protocol typically taught in Florida for an active shooter is for the first 4 officers to immediately form an entry team and advance, with the fifth taking incident command to direct other incoming units. If a hostage situation emerges and a suspect is barricaded, then typically the protocol is containment until SWAT arrives. Since the source is Fox, I wouldn't put much stock in it yet. As I understand it the off duty cop at the club was the first to engage the bad guy.

I am looking forward to the after action review and the resulting training changes that will arise from the lessons learned here.
The protocol of containment has proven to be a failed venture over and over again with active shooters.

I just don't know what a cop could be thinking knowing that people are being killed, yet waiting.
 
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