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School shootings are now part of our culture.

Ooh-Rah

Marine
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Sep 12, 2012
Messages
7,966
#1
School shootings are part of our culture now, they just are.

I would like to discuss what is that we as parents can actually do to try and protect our kids at school.

Recently I was surfing the net and saw bullet resistant backpacks.

There was a discussion at the cigar store a few weeks ago where one of the dads (who is a paramedic) made "blow out kits" for his teenage sons. They sit at the bottom of their backpacks and they know how to use it.

Do we talk to our kids enough about telling an adult if they hear of a kid or know of a kid who write "I'm killing everyone" or similar noise on their social media page?

In the case of the most recent shooting, the shooter pulled the fire alarms to get students out into the hallways. How should kids react? Fall down and 'play dead'? Hide?

Does any of the above even matter? I don't know. But I know that I 'carry' literally everywhere it is legal to do so, and sometimes in areas that may be a gray line. My kids do not have that option, as a dad who is charged with protecting my children, what am I doing to help put the odds in their favor at least a little bit?
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
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Messages
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Not Afghanistan
#2
Violence is a part of our culture. School shootings are just a new arena.

I think the kids in Arkansas years agoi did the fire alarm trick too. Not much you can do to stop that.

Schools are soft targets. UNless they are hardened they will continue to be vulnerable places. Combine teen angst, bullying, etc., they are places with serious emotional connections and will always be a target.
 

DA SWO

SOWT
Verified SOF
Joined
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Messages
8,316
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San Antonio Texas
#3
I wonder when (if?) these shooters start to understand what they did?
It seems (to me) that our younger generation demands respect, but is unwilling to give respect to others.
 

Devildoc

Verified Military
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Nov 3, 2015
Messages
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Durham, NC
#4
We homeschool. No way I am sending my kids into a combat zone.

No judgment to those that do--we all have our reasons why we do what we do.
 
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Poccington

Where the fuck is Zordon?
Verified Military
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
1,366
#5
Politicians brought forth legislation to make tide pods look less edible so people would stop eating them.

Politicians complete inaction when it comes to gun control, is unbelievable to me. Now admittedly, I don't live in the US and I understand it's a constitutional issue but fuck me...
 
Joined
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346
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In the hell that is the North East :(
#6
We protect our sporting events with guns. I recall news coverage of the recent Super Bowl's security measures, snipers on the roof top, roaving patrols, metal detectors ect. Everyone was ok with guns there and I believe many expected it. We protect shopping malls, celebrities, politicians, money, anything of value we protect with guns. So I ask why is it so unthinkable to protect our schools with guns?
 

Devildoc

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#7
P
Politicians complete inaction when it comes to gun control, is unbelievable to me. Now admittedly, I don't live in the US and I understand it's a constitutional issue but fuck me...
It is such a Gordian knot of unbelievable complexity it isn't even funny. Believe me, if there was an easy answer, there would be action. It's not just that it is constitutional. It's also social and economic.
 

x SF med

the Troll
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Not far from the south of Canada, 'Murica!
#8
IMO... much of what we are seeing here can be tracked back to lack of discipline, lack of moral/ethical code, lack of personal responsibility and the "I'm special" mindset. Community has become cliques, identification has become less village and more gang (LGBQT, hispano-female, afro-activist, sis-gendered alien, etc...) thus creating frictions unknown in the past. We, as a society do not teach coping skills, but, rather blaming skills... victimization skills, and entitlement skills. How does a young person learn to deal with adversity if he/she is removed from adversity by attitude - I don't have to lift myself, I'm a victim, so instead of finding a workable solution, I'll grab dad's gun and kill my classmates - that'll get me on the news, I'll be famous.

Our society has become a hide, run, blame culture; where it used to be a confront and overcome culture. The false open liberal attitudes that actually squash the exchange of ideas and reduce strength by adversity, replacing it with weakness by victimization is eroding the moral and ethical fiber of all.

again, just MOO.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
532
Location
Midwest
#9
Politicians brought forth legislation to make tide pods look less edible so people would stop eating them.

Politicians complete inaction when it comes to gun control, is unbelievable to me. Now admittedly, I don't live in the US and I understand it's a constitutional issue but fuck me...
Personally I believe the easy argument is that it's part of the constitution so it can never be changed regardless of the affects it may or may not have and regardless of how many changes have actually been done to the constitution. But the fact of the matter is (IMO) as @AWP said, violence is part of our culture, hell this country was formed on it. Just as I imagine that we'll always try and be at the forefront militarily speaking, we'll scratch and bite to keep our guns because it's just who we are at this point.

But the main issue isn't gun control in my opinion, it's the fact that there is so little spotlight on mental health, granted we've made leaps and bounds from when you would get an ice pick to your prefrontal cortex. There is still a ton that is never mentioned or it gets drowned out by other "outrage issues". Add into the mix the absolute horror show that is Highschool if you happen to be one of the "unlucky ones" and you have a recipe for disaster.

Take Elliot Rodgers for example, he went on a rampage in California a few years ago targeting a bunch of sororities. But the thing is, all of that could have probably been avoided if the parents were paying the slightest amount of attention in what he was saying and doing. A couple of months after the rampage emails of Elliot's conversations with his parents came to light and anyone with an iota of a brain cell could see right away that he was a sick sick puppy traveling on a dead end street.

I'm sorry but I strongly feel that a lot of these things could have been avoided if the parents were more involved.
 

JSR684

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Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
4
#10
It's been released that the FBI was made aware of the Florida shooter back in September when someone received a comment about him saying he was going to be a professional school shooter. Plus, his social media was full of very disturbing posts all before it was all removed yesterday. The issue of gun control is very......complex. There are so many factors involved. Cultural, economic, poverty, organized crime, geographical, population density etc etc etc. Gun control isn't a "one size fits all" solution, I just hope that one day our legislators can sit down and actually talk without subjective political agendas behind them (wishful thinking).
 
Joined
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Messages
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Midwest
#11
It's been released that the FBI was made aware of the Florida shooter back in September when someone received a comment about him saying he was going to be a professional school shooter. Plus, his social media was full of very disturbing posts all before it was all removed yesterday

This is what pisses me off the most, there were all these warning signs and posts that have been called disturbing and alarming, and yet no one sat down with the kid. No one thought to themselves that, hey this isn't just teenage angst but there is actual meaning behind it?

I get trying to be an edgy cunt going through high school, hell black humor is still my favorite kind. But come the fuck on, how did no one catch this, not his friends, not the "family friend" he was living with hell the FBI was apparently made aware of this shit. Whatever. It's just going to turn into a political grandstanding circle jerk of gun control vs carry on campus.
 

256

SWAT
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Jan 22, 2018
Messages
219
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pert near Lake Erie
#12
IMO... much of what we are seeing here can be tracked back to lack of discipline, lack of moral/ethical code, lack of personal responsibility and the "I'm special" mindset. Community has become cliques, identification has become less village and more gang (LGBQT, hispano-female, afro-activist, sis-gendered alien, etc...) thus creating frictions unknown in the past. We, as a society do not teach coping skills, but, rather blaming skills... victimization skills, and entitlement skills. How does a young person learn to deal with adversity if he/she is removed from adversity by attitude - I don't have to lift myself, I'm a victim, so instead of finding a workable solution, I'll grab dad's gun and kill my classmates - that'll get me on the news, I'll be famous.

Our society has become a hide, run, blame culture; where it used to be a confront and overcome culture. The false open liberal attitudes that actually squash the exchange of ideas and reduce strength by adversity, replacing it with weakness by victimization is eroding the moral and ethical fiber of all.

again, just MOO.
Agreed. There’s a real lack of caring for life and morals. I’m not a religious man but I firmly believe that we pull our morals from the teachings. When you walk into a church it’s mostly full of the elderly, unless it’s Christmas or Easter.

I also think the only way to lessen the effectiveness of these shootings is to arm and train our teaching staff. They may not be on the next bird to get the leader of ISIS but a good guy with a gun is better than nothing. Especially, if there are a number of armed and trained staff members. It would take time to develop a program but so far School Resource Officers, metal detectors and gates aren’t helping.

If anything it’s a deterrent.
 

LouCar22

Airborne Infantry
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Messages
24
#13
I agree 100% with everything that @x SF med stated. It's a personal integrity issue. Now I could defer to the religious argument to trace the lack of morality in this country, but I'll spare you all. To bring it back down to the worldly perspective, we are a divided people, hateful and weak minded. Our young people struggle now, more than ever, with personal identity issues coupled with the incapacity for empathy. These same people watch and worship some of the most disgusting public figures that this country has to offer. It all of starts in the home.

I also think the only way to lessen the effectiveness of these shootings is to arm and train our teaching staff.
As great as this sounds...it would have to be on a strict volunteer basis only and could never become actual policy. It's just not their job. However, I understand the logic of it.

To answer the OP's question...increased security measures would seem like the "best" short term solution.
 
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Frank S.

L'homme qui rit
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1,689
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The Mountains of Madness
#14
This latest incident will only further the divide between political parties so I wouldn't look for anything worthwhile from "the professionals".
This can happen literally anywhere, so Devildoc's solution (homeschooling) makes absolute sense. For those who can't, having one stay at home parent to perform the role of FBI and State Department, engaging the school admin, watching over kids' online activity, looking for clues and signs may be necessary.

But that's only the beginning. A grandmother in Washington state turned in her grandson for a planned shooting. Student accused of plotting Everett school shooting could be charged today

This case may be interesting in terms of how proactive LE can be expected to be.
 

DC

Navy Diver
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#15
Armed professionals, not Allied Barton cell phone addicts, on campus.
TRAIN staff for behavioral identifiers of students and parents.
Close campus. Open campus allows anyone in anytime.
Mandatory active shooter training and drills. A lot of schools ignore this warning.
Report and act on ALL warning signs regardless of political correctness.
Charge adults who allow weapons to fall into the hands of juveniles.

What a complete travesty. This shit must stop.

Agreed. There’s a real lack of caring for life and morals. I’m not a religious man but I firmly believe that we pull our morals from the teachings. When you walk into a church it’s mostly full of the elderly, unless it’s Christmas or Easter.

I also think the only way to lessen the effectiveness of these shootings is to arm and train our teaching staff. They may not be on the next bird to get the leader of ISIS but a good guy with a gun is better than nothing. Especially, if there are a number of armed and trained staff members. It would take time to develop a program but so far School Resource Officers, metal detectors and gates aren’t helping.

If anything it’s a deterrent.
I would not ever put a weapon in the hands of a teacher. Liability alone is huge. Use private security that is proven in a protection services role. No uniform, no duty belt just concealed carry ready to react to threats. Interfaces with staff to gather intel. I do part time EP now and this can be done simply and quickly. Problem is cost. We are not cheap. School budgets as well as corporate mindset make the costs more than the bean counters want to pay.
 

Ocoka

Combined Action
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Decisive Terrain
#16
You can't regulate crazy and you can't regulate hate... If the perp didn't have access to guns he would've found another way to kill. Its not that hard to make a homemade bomb or Molotov cocktails or drive a car into a crowd.

Schools need closed campuses (thank you @DC) and swipable passcode badges that can be confiscated upon suspension or expulsion...or when threats are reported.
 

Devildoc

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Messages
2,169
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Durham, NC
#19
Armed professionals, not Allied Barton cell phone addicts, on campus.
TRAIN staff for behavioral identifiers of students and parents.
Close campus. Open campus allows anyone in anytime.
Mandatory active shooter training and drills. A lot of schools ignore this warning.
Report and act on ALL warning signs regardless of political correctness.
Charge adults who allow weapons to fall into the hands of juveniles.

What a complete travesty. This shit must stop.
Agree with all but some of this they do and they choose to not implement it; specifically, training staff to identify and report. There are headlines about teachers reporting things...to no avail. Or reporting...then being sued by parents. Or being afraid to report for fear of being accused of racism/sexism/whateverism. I agree it needs to be done. They are supposed to be doing it now. Administration needs to insulate staff who report.
 

J.

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Oct 18, 2015
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38
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Some Beach
#20
Why not hire former Military of Police as armed guards. Not with an overbearing presence but with a presence none the less. Have a reaction force, teach students more about responding to an active shooter, harden schools entry, exists, emergency procedures, surveillance etc.

Back in high school we had two armed deputies roving the halls, one K9, a first entry surrounded by bulletproof glass and a camera that required identification, a send entry that required a human to see you visually, no hats, coats, etc. Bags searched, social media investigated...it worked. I never felt an invasion of space or privacy and all of our security measures were seamless. More schools should get on board with the idea. Privacy, and personal opinions about firearms should not be involved when it comes to protecting schools.