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Short Barrel Rifle Accuracy Questions

Nikolai308

Verified Military
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Maine - York County
#1
Gentlemen,

Our Chief at my police department is seriously thinking about getting short barreled rifles and silencers. I do not have a lot of knowledge on silencers and accuracy for short barreled rifles. We would like to purchase just the uppers as we have lower receivers to use. These rifles would be for our SRT team who do entry and woodland ops in our area. So here is my list of questions:

1. On a 10 or 11 inch barrel, how accurate are they out to 300 yards?
2. Screw on or detachable silencers?
3. If we use silencers what issues do we need to be aware with a short barreled rifle?
4. Silencer recommendations (not looking for top of the line, looking for reliability at a decent price)

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated in advance.

Nikolai308
 

Ocoka

Combined Action
Verified Military
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
4,861
Location
Decisive Terrain
#2
Short-barreled rifles can be accurate at 300 yards, depending on the rig and the shooter...but why would you use one for a critical distance shot when I assume you--as an SRT sniper--would have better options. Short rifles are the perfect thing for confined spaces or moderate distances...but I'd want a long gun for anything beyond 200.

Others here can give you advice about suppressors.
 

Nikolai308

Verified Military
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Maine - York County
#3
Ocoka,

We are not looking to use these for the snipers. They are for confined spaces / moderate distances and will be used by the entry team and maybe by patrol further down the line. One of the issues we in the LE community face is hearing loss from shooting in confined spaces. We are trying to prevent hearing loss before it happens.
 

Kakashi66223

Marine/Army ATC
Verified Military
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
62
#5
Gentlemen,

Our Chief at my police department is seriously thinking about getting short barreled rifles and silencers. I do not have a lot of knowledge on silencers and accuracy for short barreled rifles. We would like to purchase just the uppers as we have lower receivers to use. These rifles would be for our SRT team who do entry and woodland ops in our area. So here is my list of questions:

1. On a 10 or 11 inch barrel, how accurate are they out to 300 yards?
2. Screw on or detachable silencers?
3. If we use silencers what issues do we need to be aware with a short barreled rifle?
4. Silencer recommendations (not looking for top of the line, looking for reliability at a decent price)

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated in advance.

Nikolai308
I'm no expert, I literally don't have a single tax stamp in my name, but I did learn a lot from my friends tho. Very loaded question tho.

1. Accuracy to 300yds, I guess it really depends on what AMMO you are using and out of what BARREL , ergo: 1:7 NATO 556: 62grain m855 to 77grain Sierra Match. Not a fan of 556 and suppressing.

300BLK if you go LEO M4/AR lowers if it were my call.

--Either way to best answer this question, to 300yards most rifles are more consistent than the shooter. (Exceptions being low twist, heavy projectile, poor ammo quality, and projectiles that are bricks due to lighter loads and the 5.7x28mm.) SBRs are louder as the charge is still burning but the short range accuracy is again mostly dependent on twist and ammo. Also, most of the testing I've seen show slight drops in fps that really effect performance of 556/762 at 400-600. Longer barrels burn some quantitative amount, safe to say a lot, of the propellant which translates to higher fps, overall longer and harder.

2. That's prolly your depts' call, screw-on suppressors needs to periodically be retightened often during use, wear a thick glove or oven mitt as you shoot a mag or two. Prolly best to wield/ pin this can on.

3. Some things to Google/youtube on your own, you'll learn more on your own than me saying this is "the gospel".

-- 300blk suppressed, Suppressors need preventative maintenance, baffle strikes, suppressors can get stuck if they are detachable(shoot off /torch), and they are safely loud but not utterly silent. Supersonic loads vs subsonic. Piston vs direct inpingment, specific suppressed BCGs and buffers.

4. There are a lot of good CANS out there. My recommendations may not fit your depts profile.

GL. Blue lives matter.
 

DA SWO

SOWT
Verified SOF
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
8,316
Location
San Antonio Texas
#6
AFSOC (and others) are using SBR's and whacking bad guys/gals all over the world.
Barrels wearing out has been the only issue (talking to friends at Hq AFSOC).
Don't see how a screw on would change the POI, as it's essentially an extension of the barrel.
Are the Patrol Officers doing room clearing, if not then a 14 or 16 inch barrel would be better, likewise getting an extra upper for the weapon may be a better option.
I wouldn't pin the suppressor to the weapon.
 

Diamondback 2/2

Infantry
Verified Military
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
6,232
Location
Texas
#8
Barrel Length Studies in 5.56mm NATO Weapons

I would type a lengthy response out, but I've discussed it before on here. You lose velocity with the shorter barrel, thus with a smaller round such as 5.56, you lose lethality at greater distances. The round will be barley lethal at 300 yards (you won't get the tumbling and fragmenting effects, and not as deep penatration) but yes it will group and break enter the body at 300yd.

That said, out side of the CQB ranges, I do not like short barrels, unless using a different caliber, such as 7.62, etc. But that's just my personal preference.
 

Kraut783

SOF Support
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
1,971
Location
Dallas Metro Area
#11
Back in the day when SWAT was rocking the HK MP5 SD's...it was great, if you heard a gunshot, you knew it was a bad guy shooting. Suppressed for law enforcement has a place.
 

Nikolai308

Verified Military
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Maine - York County
#13
AFSOC (and others) are using SBR's and whacking bad guys/gals all over the world.
Barrels wearing out has been the only issue (talking to friends at Hq AFSOC).
Don't see how a screw on would change the POI, as it's essentially an extension of the barrel.
Are the Patrol Officers doing room clearing, if not then a 14 or 16 inch barrel would be better, likewise getting an extra upper for the weapon may be a better option.
I wouldn't pin the suppressor to the weapon.
We are looking to get an extra uppers. I leaning more towards a detachable suppressor system then a screw
If you read the ASA utilization report, there a few instances of shootings occurring past 200 meters. Remember, nobody thought the bad guys would be throwing pipe bombs in downtown Boston at the police.
 

Kraut783

SOF Support
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
1,971
Location
Dallas Metro Area
#14
If you read the ASA utilization report, there a few instances of shootings occurring past 200 meters. Remember, nobody thought the bad guys would be throwing pipe bombs in downtown Boston at the police.
True, the "zero" statement was kind of flippant, but not counting police snipers....the chances of patrol officers or tactical teams taking those kind of shots with a M4 (or other patrol type rifle).....are very very very low.
 

DA SWO

SOWT
Verified SOF
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
8,316
Location
San Antonio Texas
#16
We are looking to get an extra uppers. I leaning more towards a detachable suppressor system then a screw


If you read the ASA utilization report, there a few instances of shootings occurring past 200 meters. Remember, nobody thought the bad guys would be throwing pipe bombs in downtown Boston at the police.
Go to the SHOT show in Vegas, you can play with every suppressor available and talk with company reps.
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
4,910
Location
A galaxy far, far away
#17
My thoughts are in red in the quoted portion.

Gentlemen,

Our Chief at my police department is seriously thinking about getting short barreled rifles and silencers. I do not have a lot of knowledge on silencers and accuracy for short barreled rifles. We would like to purchase just the uppers as we have lower receivers to use. These rifles would be for our SRT team who do entry and woodland ops in our area. So here is my list of questions:

First, the mission drives the gear train. That's primary. I have carried SBSs, SBRs (suppressed and not) and 16" bbl M4s at various times for various reasons.

1. On a 10 or 11 inch barrel, how accurate are they out to 300 yards?

This shouldn't be a consideration. If the mission profile indicates such a shot is possible use the 16" upper and a magnifier for your optic.

2. Screw on or detachable silencers?

I use a Surefire SOCOM-RC. It's detachable and I see no reason for anything else.

3. If we use silencers what issues do we need to be aware with a short barreled rifle?

You should be aware that accuracy will likely increase. My groups decreased in size with a suppressor, with only a negligible shift in POI.

Muzzle blast is a non factor. With an SBR that's a good thing.


4. Silencer recommendations (not looking for top of the line, looking for reliability at a decent price)

Surefire. Gemtech. AAC. Surefire.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated in advance.

Nikolai308
Now, be aware that public opinion may factor into your decision. You may get pushback from politicians, etc.

Also, we're talking SWAT here. SBRs excel in vehicles and inside buildings; an SBR with a suppressor is equal in length or longer than a 16" bbl M4. Mine is setup as a Mk18 and it's a hair longer than my long upper. Again, mission/gear train issue. Pick the right gear for the mission profile.

If the team is doing woodland ops, absolutely mount the long upper.

Silencers are a great thing, and go a long way towards reducing irreversible hearing damage (says the medic with tinnitus).

Also, a related issue is what kind of comms gear is the team using? Suppressors may be more of a safety issue (read: OSHA) for patrol than for SWAT with Peltors.

I personally think all LEOs should have the option of using a suppressor, and I'm working on developing research to show this is best practice.

These are just a few of my thoughts. I'm a doc, not a sniper so maybe one of our resident snipers will join in. My perspective is from the standpoint of someone in the stack. @Cabbage Head @Etype
 
Last edited:

Kaldak

Verified Military
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
482
Location
Somewhere
#19
I thought you needed to have specific jobs to attend. In other words, if not in the procurement role, but simply doing research to convince upper management, you wouldn't be able to attend, correct?

Go to the SHOT show in Vegas, you can play with every suppressor available and talk with company reps.