Star Wars - ** SPOILERS ** discussion thread

Ooh-Rah

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This movie could have been 30 minutes longer and I'd have been okay. It didn't need all the detail of the prequels - but at least fill in a few details about the past 30 years -

- Why human storm troopers instead of clones?

- What's the story on the Supreme Leader (snoke?) Where did he come from? (he kind of looks like a character from a Tool video)

- What has become of the Empire? Did they just rename themselves The First Order?

- How did Rey know how to fly the Falcon? "junk" as she refereed to it, and it has not flown in years.

- Is Rey Luke's daughter? This article discusses two theories in great detail.

Link - who's your Daddy?

- And finally...I have to wait two damn years just to hear Luke utter a word!?!


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Kraut783

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"Why human storm troopers instead of clones?"

Clones couldn't shoot for shit.....are the humans/stormtroopers better shots in this movie?
 

policemedic

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This movie could have been 30 minutes longer and I'd have been okay. It didn't need all the detail of the prequels - but at least fill in a few details about the past 30 years -

- Why human storm troopers instead of clones?

- What's the story on the Supreme Leader (snoke?) Where did he come from? (he kind of looks like a character from a Tool video)

- What has become of the Empire? Did they just rename themselves The First Order?

- How did Rey know how to fly the Falcon? "junk" as she refereed to it, and it has not flown in years.

- Is Rey Luke's daughter? This article discusses two theories in great detail.

Link - who's your Daddy?

- And finally...I have to wait two damn years just to hear Luke utter a word!?!


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The Star Wars novels answer questions regarding Han (RIP) and Leia's progeny. I'm pretty sure Rey will be revealed as their daughter. The film is taking some liberties with the Star Wars literary universe, but that's OK.
 

Poccington

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Just on the novels guys... Disney declared all the stuff from the Star Wars Extended Universe(Novels, comics etc.) as non canon and as having not happened in the new Star Wars Disney timeline. They released their own timeline for what is now considered canon.

They never would've stood a chance with forming a new trilogy if they kept the Extended Universe in play.
 

Poccington

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I think it's pretty nailed on that Rey is a Skywalker, since the trilogy is focusing on what has happened to the Skywalker family. I also think she was at the Jedi Academy when Kylo and the Knights Of Ren turned and killed the studies, with her being sent to Jakku as a means of keeping her safe.

Kylo Ren is a really good character too. Angry, insecure, frustrated, volatile... He's everything Anakin should have been in the prequel trilogy.
 

Ooh-Rah

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It would have been interesting to see Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman in their same roles, but with a different director and writer. (Maybe Irvin Kershner, the dude who directed Empire) - both are very good actors, it could have been a very different set of prequels with some minor modifications. I recently re-watched the origional three, and you can see Lucas's shitty dialog all througout Jedi. Especially scene between Han and Leia on the bridge after Luke tells her that they are siblings. Holy Douche chills, Batman.
 

Raptor

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The thing about humans instead of clones is that because of the clones having accelerated growth hormones, they live a shorter life than most humans, so even by Episode IV, most of them were gone.

Anyways, I only really have one complaint. The whole part with the super weapon was pretty much straight ripped from Episode IV, I felt. An important character dies, somebody is trapped and they go rescue them, they decide to assault the thing with starfighters and there's only one weak spot they need to attack. I still really liked the movie, but that part just felt too copy-and-pasted to me.
However, I'm still very excited for the upcoming movies.
 

Dienekes

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I was expecting Kylo Ren to be much more powerful. He killed all the other Jedi-in-training and managed to evade/beat Luke Skywalker and catch a blaster shot(which no other Jedi was able to do in any other movies), but an untrained Jedi was able to resist him mentally and defeat him with no training at all? Also, some Joe Blow stormtrooper with only blaster training was able to go toe-to-toe with a badass Sith for a while in a lightsaber duel? Just slight bitching. The movie was still cool as hell.

Millennium Falcon called garbage?!?!?!?! HOW DARE THEY!!!!!!!!!
 

racing_kitty

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Characters have derided the Millennium Falcon as a piece of junk since Episode IV. I literally laughed out loud when it happened again. Most underestimated ship in the galaxy, she is.

I wonder if some of the footage that was left out was excluded because it had looked better in a trailer than the actual film, or if Abrams was just looking to keep the run time down to a certain level. I'm not psychic, so I don't know. That would explain why Luke had quite a few speaking lines in the trailer, then nothing in the actual release, though. We'll find out when a director's cut hits DVD, won't we?

There are some people who weren't happy with the lack of originality in some of the characters; that's their opinion and I respect that. I can definitely understand why Disney elected to make the Extended Universe non-canon, but anyone who went through life thinking there was no way Han and Leia were going to make little Jedi babies at some point probably needs to deep throat a light saber. I was a little more disappointed with Death Star 3.0 than any of the characters, but not enough to where I didn't enjoy the movie. Hell, I was even able to rationalize that before the end of the movie; like communism, the former Empire just didn't do it right, and we of the First Order will do it right this time. See how easy that was?

As far as Finn being proficient in light saber use, if he was abducted as a child and trained until adulthood in how to kill, then it's possible that his training included hand to hand and/or melée weapons (think pugil sticks). The fact he could actually wield a light saber could possibly denote that Finn is force sensitive and doesn't know it yet. I could be wrong, though.

For anyone making the comparisons between R2's search for Obi Wan and the search for Luke, Obi Wan was found in the first 20-30 minutes of the film and the search was a minor plot device, while the search for Luke was the point of the movie. Considering Luke is once again the only Jedi in the universe at the moment, and he's already known to up and disappear to who knows where for stretches of time (Empire and implied in Jedi) without telling anyone else why, making the search for Luke a main plot point made good sense.

I'm interested to see how the First Order arose. I want to see more of Captain Phasma, intergalactic bitch extraordinaire. I want to see if Rey is really Luke's kid or not. I want to know who the hell is Snoke, and just exactly how is he going to complete Kylo Ren's training. I can't help but wonder how many of these plot holes are deliberately left open to be filled by Episode VIII.
 

Locksteady

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^ Pretty much what @Dienekes said. They're going to have to full a lot of stuff out of their rear end in the next movie to justify that level of apparent inconsistency.

Kylo Ren.. what a joke. He should have kept the stupid mask on, at least until he ran into his father near the movie's end. Instead, halfway through the movie the mask comes off and all of a sudden you're face-to-face with this weak-voiced, whiny-faced little rat who does not at all resemble the force with Jedi and Sith blood in his veins who survived betraying Anakin and single-handedly destroyed his new Jedi Order. I understand they wanted to show that he was brimming with internal conflict (daddy issues - the continuing theme in this series) and thus was nowhere near mastery of his potential, but they went completely overboard in how they portrayed that conflict. What could've been a more compelling and realistic depiction of that inner struggle instead came off as the unmoving teary-eyed fits of an angsty millennial emo teen who mistakenly stepped off the set of a Donnie Darko sequel. Unless they plan to have him do a -lot- of clean up with his training completion in the second film, I don't see the character faring any better than Hayden Christensen's Anakin.

And speaking of Anakin, if Ren intended to follow in Vader's footsteps, he definitely succeeded. Unfortunately, the Anakin he emulated was the pretentious, love-struck little brat that wasted everyone's time in Attack of the Clones. And you're going to tell me that they're able to build an even -bigger- planet-sized Death Star in 30 years, and on top of that they're going to -not- learn from the mistakes of the first one and decide it's a great idea to build an even bigger one with a significantly larger shaft to infiltrate, which is exactly what Poe exploits to destroy it? And Luke's lightsaber ending up in the hands of Paz after falling down a chute with his severed hand? The same lightsaber that she keeps a floor below her bar in an unlocked storage unit for anyone to just walk into and nab? No matter what backsplanations they use, there were far too many convenient coincidences that seemed thrown in to facilitate the rushed pace of Abrams' trilogy timeline.

That aside, it didn't stop me from enjoying the movie, and it was a refreshing return to the feel and humor of the original trilogy (they could've skipped the stupid break in the fourth wall quips from Poe to Kylo Ren about who talks first, though :rolleyes:). Poe Cameron was great, and I'm interested to see more of him in the second film. BB-8 stole every scene he was in - what a fun character! I thought Rey's character development was too rushed but I like the dynamic developing between her and Finn (who I also thought was well cast for the role). Finn is pretty much the wildcard at this point, but I am enjoying his character development at this point and he seems like a very realistic and relatable character.

Most likely prediction for the next movie: Kylo Ren makes leaps and bounds in his Sith training as a result of clearing the emotional baggage he had by killing Han (note the parallel with Anakin becoming Darth Vader after the only person he loved, Padme, dying). Meanwhile, Rey learns from Master Luke, where it is revealed he is either his daughter like @Poccington suggested (she jacked Luke's lightsaber over Kylo, after all) or she is Kylo Ren's sister/twin. Tragic ending ensues when the one paduwan who betrayed him, Kylo, returns and slaughters him, fueling the conflict for the third movie.

Alternative prediction with a darker twist: Rey trains with Master Luke, developing more strength and control over her abilities with his guidance. Meanwhile, Kylo Ren experiences more trouble in developing his powers, and his training with Supreme Leader Snoke is going completely downhill, with his progress even waning. In a flash of insight, Kylo Ren realizes that his power was at its strongest when he was embracing the path upon which Master Luke was training him. His fall to the dark side only diminished the strength he had, if only because he was meant to be a Jedi (this could explain his relative lack of Force strength by the time he met Rey), and his killing of his father was a complete mistake. The realization causes him to rebel from Supreme Leader Snoke, leading to his powers enhancing as he starts to embrace the light side of the Force. Rey (and watching the way she fought with the light saber tipped me off to this idea), it turns out, is an unmanifested Sith (the trend seems to be that those with absurdly high starting levels of innate Force ability have ended up being Sith - light siders tend to have to work more to develop their powers, i.e. Luke), and in a tragic turn of events, submits to the dark side and ends up killing Master Luke, fueling the conflict for the third movie.
 

Poccington

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Just on Kylo Ren not being as menacing etc. a villain as Vader was.... That's the entire point and is what drives Kylo as a character.

He's trying to live up to his family name, his grandfather was a feared Sith lord, his uncle was the last remaining Jedi known in existence and then there's Kylo, a kid who failed to complete his Jedi training and is still yet to complete his Sith training.

At the start of the film he was still conflicted and being called by the light side as he tried to fully embrace the dark side. He was trying to style himself as Vader reincarnate while the likes of Lor San Tekka(Max Von Sydow's character) and Poe Dameron showed no fear, to the point where Poe just flat out didnt give a fuck at a time when Kylo was supposed to be holding all the cards.

All this led to his tantrums such as killing Lor San Tekka, slashing up a computer console and so on.

On the note of him being beaten by Rey and not being able to finish off Finn... A few moments before, he had been shot by Chewie with his bowcaster and was bleeding heavily. Earlier in the movie, Han shot a stormtrooper with it and sent him flying backwards about 10 foot. It wasn't as if he was exactly fighting fresh.

He's conflicted, insecure, living with the shadow of the slaughter at the Jedi Academy, trying to live upto the history of the Skywalker family history... And all this while he's basically still just a kid. I'm really interested to see where the character goes and quite like the idea of the redemption arc that @Locksteady posted.
 

Poccington

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I've read theories that Snoke is actually Darth Plageus and that he somehow managed to fool Palpatine into believing that he had killed him.

I'm not so sure though but if it isn't him... Then who the fuck is he?
 

Raptor

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I've read theories that Snoke is actually Darth Plageus and that he somehow managed to fool Palpatine into believing that he had killed him.

I'm not so sure though but if it isn't him... Then who the fuck is he?
Jar Jar

Seriously, though, it could just be a completely new character, or it could be a clone of somebody (like all the Emperor clones that popped up in the Expanded Universe), but I think that one is far less likely.
 

Poccington

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- Why human storm troopers instead of clones?

- What's the story on the Supreme Leader (snoke?) Where did he come from? (he kind of looks like a character from a Tool video)

- What has become of the Empire? Did they just rename themselves The First Order?

- How did Rey know how to fly the Falcon? "junk" as she refereed to it, and it has not flown in years.

- Is Rey Luke's daughter? This article discusses two theories in great detail.

Link - who's your Daddy?

- And finally...I have to wait two damn years just to hear Luke utter a word!?!


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25 Unanswered Star Wars: The Force Awakens Questions

This article answers some of your questions on The First Order and so on. It's pretty good.
 
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