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The ACA/ Obamacare Website Fiasco Thread

Marauder06

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#81
Lots of well-reasoned, well-researched (and cited) posts in this thread on all sides of this argument. I'm learning a lot here.
 

surgicalcric

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#82
I have no fundamental objection to welfare and other social handouts, if for no other reason it keeps large swathes of people from resorting to violent crime in order to feed themselves and their families...
.
According to “An Assessment of Crime in Maryland Today,” Maryland State Conference of Branches, NAACP, February 1994, “Executive Summary,” p. 7" the conclusion is made that “the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today.” Research by Dr. June O’Neill’s and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.

Something else to consider in the welfare debate is how to prevent further linkage.
 

TLDR20

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#83
According to “An Assessment of Crime in Maryland Today,” Maryland State Conference of Branches, NAACP, February 1994, “Executive Summary,” p. 7" the conclusion is made that “the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today.” Research by Dr. June O’Neill’s and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.

Something else to consider...
While it is off topic, the amount of variables that go into those increases in crimes is astronomical. Lots of things lead people into crime, being on welfare is a side effect of the other reasons.
 

lindy

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#84
According to “An Assessment of Crime in Maryland Today,” Maryland State Conference of Branches, NAACP, February 1994, “Executive Summary,” p. 7" the conclusion is made that “the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today.” Research by Dr. June O’Neill’s and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.

Something else to consider in the welfare debate is how to prevent further linkage.
As a Maryland resident that lives within walking distance of a high-crime, low income Section 8 housing area, I 100% agree with the above. Our neighborhood has seen an explosion of crime from vandalism to strong armed robberies (hoods transit our area and steal along the way...they have guns but I cannot legally). It has been argued that higher value of food stamps increases fraud which provides ill gotten booty to criminals for...drugs, guns, and stuff.

http://www.wbaltv.com/Md-Ranks-2nd-...raud/-/9380084/8902690/-/pm9ugdz/-/index.html

I assume that poor diet, laziness, smoking, drinking, etc would trend towards higher healthcare needs...and more Dem'crat votes (MD is very blue with the Gov planning on a presidential run if Hillary will let him).
 

JHD

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#85
As a Maryland resident that lives within walking distance of a high-crime, low income Section 8 housing area, I 100% agree with the above. Our neighborhood has seen an explosion of crime from vandalism to strong armed robberies (hoods transit our area and steal along the way...they have guns but I cannot legally). It has been argued that higher value of food stamps increases fraud which provides ill gotten booty to criminals for...drugs, guns, and stuff.

http://www.wbaltv.com/Md-Ranks-2nd-...raud/-/9380084/8902690/-/pm9ugdz/-/index.html

I assume that poor diet, laziness, smoking, drinking, etc would trend towards higher healthcare needs...and more Dem'crat votes (MD is very blue with the Gov planning on a presidential run if Hillary will let him).

Spot on.

And o'Malley is a very electable Dem countrywide. Although I am not a Dem, he would make a better POTUS now than the current one after his term to date.
 

surgicalcric

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#86
While it is off topic, the amount of variables that go into those increases in crimes is astronomical. Lots of things lead people into crime, being on welfare is a side effect of the other reasons.
You are right about the amount of variables but according to the research it is quite substantial. I dont have the paper here with me but will try to find the figures - it was well researched.
 

JHD

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#88
Could be the case of too many idle hands. Even rich kids do things when they have too much time on their hands and/or easy access to drugs. Add to that a situation where all people see in their environment is violence/crime occurring and no consequences, the propensity to commit a felonious act is going to increase. Just my .02 only.
 

Chopstick

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#89
Looks like Sebelius may show up after all. But if she doesnt and attends some swank party the night before, that sort of blows her "Im too busy" excuse.
A top Democratic senator said Sunday that Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius will testify before Congress about the problem-plagued ObamaCare website, amid a growing call for her to accept requests to testify.

“Ultimately, Secretary Sebelius will testify,” Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., the chamber’s No. 2 Democrat, told “Fox News Sunday.”

Sebelius and the entire Obama administration has declined requests to testify on Capitol Hill about the site, which has been plagued by crashes, slow responses and other glitches since it went online Oct. 1.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee sent a letter directly to Sebelius last week asking her to testify Thursday on the matter.

Sebelius has yet to respond publicly, but reportedly plans to attend a gala the night before in Boston, which has fueled calls for resignation
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...elius-will-testify-on-obamacare-website-woes/

And perhaps we will actually hear something on the subject directly from POTUS tomorrow. This should be interesting. I wonder if he is going to give the general public a year's grace like he did for big business? :rolleyes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/20/obamacare-website-issues_n_4131455.html

Last week, President Barack Obama gathered some of his top advisers in the Oval Office to discuss the problem-plagued rollout of his health care legislation. He told his team the administration had to own up to the fact that there were no excuses for not having the health care website ready to operate on Day One.

The admonition from a frustrated president came amid the embarrassing start to sign-ups for the health care insurance exchanges. The president is expected to address the cascade of computer problems Monday during an event at the White House.
 

Chopstick

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#90

Chopstick

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#91
I hope Earling has an employment back-up plan as well as an alternate healthcare plan for when they fire her. Priceless. Maybe she can plead that she is pregnant and has type 1 diabetes and she was ready to pass out....
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ter_operator_says_no_one_likes_it_so_far.html

At the top of his radio program today, Sean Hannity called in to an Obamacare call center. Hannity was able to get through to an operator after only several moments of waiting. He spoke to the operator for nearly 10 minutes about Obamacare, what her thoughts of it are and what kind of response she has received so far. The operator was very friendly and had no problem answering all of Hannity's questions.
 
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#92
Can you imagine if a new, private business launched this way? They'd be done. If this happened to an existing business in private industry those responsible would not have jobs. That is a fact. Off the top of my head, while I'm sure there are some examples, I cannot think of a private industry launch of this scale that has failed this badly.
 

TLDR20

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#93
Jon Stewart did a pretty good segment on how bad this is last night. I am on my phone and can't post a link, but it is hilarious.
 

compforce

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#96
Can you imagine if a new, private business launched this way? They'd be done. If this happened to an existing business in private industry those responsible would not have jobs. That is a fact. Off the top of my head, while I'm sure there are some examples, I cannot think of a private industry launch of this scale that has failed this badly.
Duke Nukem Forever (everyone on the team was fired, replaced and then those were fired, replaced, wash rinse repeat...for 15 years)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever

On the other subtopics:

The failure on the technology end is horrific. They can bring in all of the experts they want in the "tech surge" and the end result is going to be a recommendation to rewrite/re-architect the whole thing. Politicians will bring pressure to bear to "make it look like it works" and they will make the web site appear to work, but the stuff behind the curtain will probably never be completely fixed to work as intended. Finally, they will just take compromise positions like "well, we really don't need to run a credit check" which will result in a rise in fraudulent payments along with overall difficulties, ala Europe, in getting health care at all.

Voting: I'm a believer in Robert Heinlein's "Service means Citizenship" model. If you want to have access to functions of the government, serve in some capacity. It doesn't have to be military, it can be civil service. It can be manning a desk as a receptionist for a government agency (federal, state or local, I don't care which). Only after a period of mandatory service would a person be eligible for welfare or to vote or any other government program. Social Security? Make it go away over time. You can get a much better return on investment yourself. Medicare? Same thing, if you invest the money that currently is paid into medicare, you'd actually be able to afford much better health care than what is provided by medicare. I just don't get how people think that injecting a bunch of government employees as the middle man between your investment and your return is going to make you better off.

Welfare: First things first. Obama should never have pushed to have the work requirement changed the way he did, put it back. Second, better eligibility checks coupled with aggressive policing and sentencing for fraud. Reduce welfare and other assistance program payouts to place the total possible payout just above the poverty line. I know a couple that are both medical doctors and who closed their clinic to go on government assistance because it pays better... if you know how to work the system.
 

Centermass

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#97
"Well, if we had 5 years to implement all this...."

Hey Kathleen, where was this revelation prior to the rollout and why is this now coming to light?

Not to mention, this is only the tip of the iceberg for enrollment. What happens when providers start showing up to receive compensation for services provided?

And how much for a website with "Ancient technology" subject to compromise of confidential info supplied by millions of Americans? Talk about a possible cash cow for unscrupulous hackers accessing a database built for an obscene price that was never really stress tested. Where is the outrage not to mention accountability?


"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove that they are insured, but not everyone must prove that they are a citizen."

"Now add this: "Many of those who refuse or are unable to prove that they are citizens, will receive free insurance, paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance, because they are citizens."

The above (Which is a quote from Ben Stein) I believe pretty much frames this entire debacle to a ""T"

I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm covered by mutual of Army, but good God, what else is waiting in the wings that's gonna pop up out of now where?
 

TLDR20

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#98
Not to mention, this is only the tip of the iceberg for enrollment. What happens when providers start showing up to receive compensation for services provided?

A?
Well providers will go through the insurance companies who provide insurance to the people who are enrolled through the ACA's website. There will be no reason for them to show up looking for compensation.
 

Centermass

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#99
Well providers will go through the insurance companies who provide insurance to the people who are enrolled through the ACA's website. There will be no reason for them to show up looking for compensation.
Well, when the waitress shows up with the check after dinner, she doesn't care nor does the restaurant who the money comes from, just that the bill is paid.

Same thing.
 

0699

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"Well, if we had 5 years to implement all this...."

Hey Kathleen, where was this revelation prior to the rollout and why is this now coming to light?
There's an old saying; I think it orignated with civil engineers...

"You can have it fast, cheap, and well-made. Pick two."