The China Thread (Threat)

Gunz

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...We need to figure out a way to keep the Chinese contained and their firms away from North America... The fact that we do business with a bunch of mass murdering communist felchers, who've repeatedly stabbed us in the back economically and supplied our enemies, is insane.

Letting the PRC anywhere near Greenland is going to be an absolute economic and environmental disaster...
There's a saying that you can't put an American fighter aircraft in the air without Chinese chips...and there's some truth in that. Last time I checked the PRC was the largest producer of microchips in the world.
 

AWP

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There's a saying that you can't put an American fighter aircraft in the air without Chinese chips...and there's some truth in that. Last time I checked the PRC was the largest producer of microchips in the world.
Some months ago I was involved in a project, a very sanitized version of a related conversation follows:

Project Tech: Uh, we didn't spec this server...we didn't know the requirements.
Me: So?
PT: Do you have any network cards we can have?
Me: Nope.
PT: Okay, we'll find them locally.
Me: That are approved by the NSA?
PT: We have a deadline, man.

The Chinese or (insert nation here) won't beat us, we'll open the door and give them the keys. They need to show up to the party we're throwing. That's all.
 

Gunz

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Some months ago I was involved in a project, a very sanitized version of a related conversation follows:

Project Tech: Uh, we didn't spec this server...we didn't know the requirements.
Me: So?
PT: Do you have any network cards we can have?
Me: Nope.
PT: Okay, we'll find them locally.
Me: That are approved by the NSA?
PT: We have a deadline, man.

The Chinese or (insert nation here) won't beat us, we'll open the door and give them the keys. They need to show up to the party we're throwing. That's all.

Insane.

Russia is already dependent upon China...Turkey took the PRC Kool-Aid...then you have the rest of the developing world. They're being offered broadband, e-commerce, high-speed trains, all kinds of cool shit if they let the PRC come in and take over the local economy.

We don't have to go to war with China to lose.
 

CQB

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Referring to the article, it’s not so much the mining that raises an eyebrow but the improvements to the airports which is standard PRC behaviour: critical infrastructure. It’s reassuring to see the Danish government putting the brakes on over issues too.
 

BloodStripe

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Some months ago I was involved in a project, a very sanitized version of a related conversation follows:

Project Tech: Uh, we didn't spec this server...we didn't know the requirements.
Me: So?
PT: Do you have any network cards we can have?
Me: Nope.
PT: Okay, we'll find them locally.
Me: That are approved by the NSA?
PT: We have a deadline, man.

The Chinese or (insert nation here) won't beat us, we'll open the door and give them the keys. They need to show up to the party we're throwing. That's all.
The stories I could tell...
 

Gunz

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The Danes can resist. Other countries welcome the Chinese because they bring useful stuff. What are we offering? Democracy? Our Navy that steams around crashing into itself?

I have a friend who was a consultant to the NSC/DoD among other things. He says the only way to compete with the PRC is through technological innovation...for example: The Chinese are spending billions to build chip fabrication plants. We find a way of doing it better and they've got billions worth of worthless chip manufacturing plants. Make competition with the PRC a national security requirement, let DARPA, NASA and the big defense contractors innovate better tech than the PRC has.

On the surface it sounds okay but it would probably piss off the private sector because China makes all their software etc.
 

Devildoc

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@CQB , you always have a unique perspective. There's like a billion miles of ocean between the US and China so a lot of the perspective of the threat is academic. We are pretty insulated; joking aside it's not like we are at risk of war with Canada or Mexico.
 

Poccington

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@CQB , you always have a unique perspective. There's like a billion miles of ocean between the US and China so a lot of the perspective of the threat is academic. We are pretty insulated; joking aside it's not like we are at risk of war with Canada or Mexico.
I dunno man, @RackMaster seems pretty pissed these days...
 

Marauder06

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I dunno man, @RackMaster seems pretty pissed these days...
Only at his own government, lol.

What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling. Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?
 

Devildoc

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What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling. Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?
I have, and I can't figure out why. They are probably responding favorably because they can't figure out why. Like him or lump him, Trump is unlike any other president; that is, he's unpredictable, and unable to be reigned in by his party. I wonder if these countries are saying, "screw it, the man is nuts, let's see what happens...."
 

Marauder06

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The major school of thought in International Relations that covers the way the President governs is called Realism. President Trump appears to be a hard core Realist. I'm more of a constructivist myself but it's hard to argue with what seem to be the accomplishments in trade, economics, defense, and international relations under the current administration.

realism: Political Realism in International Relations (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
 

Devildoc

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@Marauder06 , my first degree is poli sci/intl relations. I'm so old, though, that the only school of thought back them was to smite your enemies with plagues of locusts. In all seriousness, I fall in more with the realism perspective, but understand that the consequences for the negatives can be quite significant.
 

Gunz

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Only at his own government, lol.

What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling. Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?
Hard agree, sir.

Nobody respects weakness, especially bully regimes like NK and Syria. Putin is a macho man: he's more likely to respond favorably when he comes up against somebody who talks tough and has the power to back up the smack.
 
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Gunz

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Interesting, even though the first article is from last year. China is kicking the tyres in the western Pacific.
Chinese military base in Pacific would be of 'great concern', Turnbull tells Vanuatu
What’s really needed is an ole fashioned monkey stomp.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Riots highlight Chinese tensions
I don't know if Australia or the US can compete financially with the deals the PRC lays on the table. China's got bags of cash and attractive incentives to toss around in poor countries that are eager to sign.

The people in the Solomons can holler all they want about low wages and unethical business practices, but their local leaders sold them out and ate the forbidden fruit...and no doubt lined their pockets in the process. Since when did the Chinese ever give a shit about ethics or working conditions.
 

Isiah6:8

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What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling. Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?
Talking only about China/Russia I would agree they are responding favorably. I believe both Xi and Putin would like their country to be the world's leading superpower and could care little about where the other two fall as long as the fall doesn't come at a cost of their end goal (not that Trump is much different). With the prior administration, I think they probably played the same game they are now, just differently, as Obama was a "pure" politician. The linear path of the future from Obama was more likely an easier task to project out including who would be where in terms of the US government and their positions for the next 4 years and possibly longer. If you know who is where, then the results of your decisions, and the projected response to your decisions have a greater probability of being planned out accurately. Trump changed all of that. I think that they realize that any drastic response they make, there might be a repercussion they have not planned on which could materially impact them. Until they and their staffs get the hang of this President, favorable response keeps things copacetic. I would think that based on their actions they are more likely to think he will be in power for another 4 after this term.

When I was in China the other year there were two distinct story lines I heard: Everything is great in China and it is the greatest place in the world to be, and everything is great in China but there is material concern about the future of China due to the fact the economics of the state aren't fully known. Travelling around from Beijing to HK that story didn't really change, but what become very pronounced when I got to HK was talking with folks about how much the money laundering areas in HK were hurting due to tighter restrictions on the very wealthy. Normally, the mainland helps bolster the HK economy, but talking with directors of certain businesses they were noticing that restrictions on capital leaving the mainland was significantly hurting business in HK and Macau.

My .02 for what little it is worth.
 
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