The Facts and the Danger Behind the BLM Movement

Ocoka

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#1
Well-researched documented statistics regarding the violent deaths of Black Americans, who is more likely to be an actual victim of police deadly force episodes, and the danger the BLM Movement presents to law enforcement efforts and individual patrol officers. Not a long article but given the outrageous distortions of truth by the proponents of the BLM Movement and the media, a necessary one and one long past due.


"The need is urgent, therefore, to examine the Black Lives Matter movement’s central thesis—that police pose the greatest threat to young black men. I propose two counter hypotheses: first, that there is no government agency more dedicated to the idea that black lives matter than the police; and second, that we have been talking obsessively about alleged police racism over the last 20 years in order to avoid talking about a far larger problem—black-on-black crime."


The Danger of the “Black Lives Matter” Movement
 
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Diamondback 2/2

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#2
I have alot of opinions regarding BLM, I think their message is narrowly placed and deceptive to be honest. Are there times where LE has unjustly killed black people? Absolutely, nobody can deny that, nor should anyone attempt to assert that it doesn't happen. However, most cases of LE killing black people is a result of criminal activity and a failure to comply with LEO's. There is far more evidence of this than LEO's being quick on the trigger because the individual was black.

I do believe there is an issue of profiling, that would be a more appropriate consideration for the black community. However, with the years of criminal activities that has become common place within many black communities, that's a long and hard road, that starts with changing the culture of acceptance of criminal activity and lack of personal responsibility. The same can be said for all races who live in impoverished communities, that have large amounts of criminal activity.

I can post hundreds of videos from YouTube to support my opinion. However we have all seen them and my time is better spent elsewhere.
 
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#4
The way I understand the point of the BLM movement, it isn't just to draw attention to police violence, but the reasons why black lives seem to not matter. @Ocoka One your article highlights the issues BLM should(is) be highlighting. Black men kill each other. Why? Do we honestly think it is because they are just shitbags, or do we look at systemic failures that create systems in which criminality is the only choice?

I don't think anyone believes that every police is a racist. I'm pretty liberal, and I seriously do not for q second believe that even .01 percent of cops go out every day with a racist thought in their brains. I do believe that the policies that put them in neighborhoods are flawed. BLM might have overstepped their initial ideology. That is a bummer. Hopefully they will get their shit together and utilize a cogent message to get themselves heard, and their goals realized.

Looking at their goals, I don't see anything calling for police killings, killing whitey, or really anything threatening:

http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/
 

Diamondback 2/2

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#5
What were you asleep last year while several BLM protests chanted what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now? Or the several officers who were ambushed and assassinated while in their patrol car's or getting gas at a gas station. I am by no means saying that all people who got involved in the BLM were calling for dead cops. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that large groups wearing BLM t-shits and holding BLM signs were not calling for dead cops, because they were.

I'm all for a social movement that changes the culture of "thug life" criminal behavior, and the ruthless murdering within the impoverished black communities across our country. But it's gotta start with personal accountability and responsibility, and not with blaming everyone else for the problem.

I do absolutely disagree with the ideology that any person of any race is forced to commit crimes. Those are absolutely personal choices, wanting to take vs earn, wanting to take what others have earned vs going out and making it for yourself. The real issue is the community accepting that it's okay to commit crimes, to steal other peoples belonging's, the spreading of an ideological view that the great white Satan is holding them down. It's not true, it may have been 60 years ago, but that ship has sailed. There are more programs available to inner city impoverished black youth than has ever been in our history. Charter schools, athletic programs, trade schools, scholarships to colleges, special internship's and special contracts to employers who hire black people. The only thing holding black people back from being successful, are themselves and their communities. It ain't the system, it ain't the great white Satan, its not the police, and its not society as a whole.
 

R.Caerbannog

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#6
Has anyone looked at the revenue streams that the BLM movement has tapped into? This is may be just me, but the way they operate reminds me of how Iraqi political parties (Sadr affiliated) and Hamas organize and disseminate info. Don't mean to sound like a tinfoil bandit, but the things that they are protesting against and their campaign against so called police deviance seem like a red herring.

I agree with @Diamondback 2/2 on how Americans have a choice in life and should take personal accountability for their own actions. I fail to see why the citizens of one of the most technologically and socially advanced countries in the world always seem to be so troubled. Either by internal social issues or the myriad of movements in place to correct them.
 
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#7
What were you asleep last year while several BLM protests chanted what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now? Or the several officers who were ambushed and assassinated while in their patrol car's or getting gas at a gas station. I am by no means saying that all people who got involved in the BLM were calling for dead cops. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that large groups wearing BLM t-shits and holding BLM signs were not calling for dead cops, because they were.

I'm all for a social movement that changes the culture of "thug life" criminal behavior, and the ruthless murdering within the impoverished black communities across our country. But it's gotta start with personal accountability and responsibility, and not with blaming everyone else for the problem.

I do absolutely disagree with the ideology that any person of any race is forced to commit crimes. Those are absolutely personal choices, wanting to take vs earn, wanting to take what others have earned vs going out and making it for yourself. The real issue is the community accepting that it's okay to commit crimes, to steal other peoples belonging's, the spreading of an ideological view that the great white Satan is holding them down. It's not true, it may have been 60 years ago, but that ship has sailed. There are more programs available to inner city impoverished black youth than has ever been in our history. Charter schools, athletic programs, trade schools, scholarships to colleges, special internship's and special contracts to employers who hire black people. The only thing holding black people back from being successful, are themselves and their communities. It ain't the system, it ain't the great white Satan, its not the police, and its not society as a whole.
You can take what individuals do as part of a whole as indicative of the greater cause. Just don't complain when people label all Christians as being ignorant retro grades, or label all conservatives as racist.

We have had a conversation about all the other stuff already.
 

Muppet

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#8
Ugh. In short, IMHO. Fuck them and their "messages". They should be labeled a domestic terrorist organization". Bunch of fucking animals doing dumb shit on the guise of "their lives matter". How about the dozens of young black males getting fucking murdered everyday in my A.O., Philly. I see none, none of these assholes protesting over the death of some kid from the corner. Just my opinion though.

M.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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#9
You can take what individuals do as part of a whole as indicative of the greater cause. Just don't complain when people label all Christians as being ignorant retro grades, or label all conservatives as racist.

We have had a conversation about all the other stuff already.
Dude, that made no sense at all. People have been attacking Christianity since the Romans crucified Jesus. And get this, conservatives are historically the ones who fight for individual rights and freedoms. The ones who fought against slavery, against segregation, against Jim Crow laws, etc.

But if your intentions were to call me ignorant or racist, my response is find a better argument because you're wrong.
 

DocIllinois

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#10
I think @TLDR20 's point was that the actions of a minority co-opting an organizational name and engaging in jackassery shouldn't represent that organization as a whole. Could be wrong about that.

This doesn't specifically mean those who engage in violent actions, either, IMHO. For instance, I wouldn't listen to anything these individuals had to say (if they were willing or capable of saying anything genuinely meaningful on the subject of lives not mattering) if someone paid me to:

 

Diamondback 2/2

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#11
So if the organization has organized a march, and the members representing that march call for dead cops. Are we not to take that as the message of that organization? Or do we say, never mind this crowd representing that organization, because not everyone supports that message?

I Know not everyone associated with BLM is calling for dead cops. That doesn't change the fact that many of their supporters did, and several officers were killed directly after, by black men, who followed that message.

My overall point is that organization developed itself a bad name (a bad brand if you will) directly from those riots, those calls for dead cops, those officers being killed. They were narrowly focused on police officers killing black people unjustly, when the larger problems are within the impoverished black community. I hope BLM can turn their organizational image around and become a driving force to change the cultures within that community. But I'm not going ignore what they did in their past, or be easy to agree with their message until they have changed that image.
 

Ocoka

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The way I understand the point of the BLM movement, it isn't just to draw attention to police violence, but the reasons why black lives seem to not matter. @Ocoka One your article highlights the issues BLM should(is) be highlighting. Black men kill each other. Why? Do we honestly think it is because they are just shitbags, or do we look at systemic failures that create systems in which criminality is the only choice?

I don't think anyone believes that every police is a racist. I'm pretty liberal, and I seriously do not for q second believe that even .01 percent of cops go out every day with a racist thought in their brains. I do believe that the policies that put them in neighborhoods are flawed. BLM might have overstepped their initial ideology. That is a bummer. Hopefully they will get their shit together and utilize a cogent message to get themselves heard, and their goals realized.

Looking at their goals, I don't see anything calling for police killings, killing whitey, or really anything threatening:

Guiding PrinciplesBlack Lives Matter

I agree pretty much with your points here. The BLM Movement at its core should indeed focus on why most black homicides are committed by other blacks, not by the police. I heard an interview with Charles Barkley who blames peer pressure and not systemic failure, the pressure on youngsters to emulate the "cool" guys in the 'hood, the guys who are making the drug money and brandishing weapons and cash...and that you're made fun of if you work hard and study in school because your'e acting too much like "whitey." I believe that has a lot to do with it at least in the inner-city neighborhoods.
 
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48over4000

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I agree pretty much with your points here. The BLM Movement at its core should indeed focus on why most black homicides are committed by other blacks, not by the police. I heard an interview with Charles Barkley who blames peer pressure and not systemic failure, the pressure on youngsters to emulate the "cool" guys in the 'hood, the guys who are making the drug money and brandishing weapons and cash...and that you're made fun of if you work hard and study in school because your'e acting too much like "whitey." I believe that has a lot to do with it at least in the inner-city neighborhoods.
I agree with this. Most of these issues begin at a young age and unfortunately it's hard to hold a 12 year accountable for falling into the rut surrounding them.

@Diamondback 2/2 is correct concerning the various programs available but can we expect the majority of these 10-15 year-olds to see the bigger picture? They are making what seems like a lot of money doing the "cool kid" thing and have thugs to idolize.

These are lifestyles which can be corrected at home. Where are the parents? Why are they not doing their all to utilize these programs in an attempt to get their child off the streets or out of the location completely? I know there are plenty who do but I doubt its even close to the majority (correct me if I'm wrong here). I understand that is an assumption.

I believe if I was in such a situation I would be placing my energy into getting them away from the situation and doing my part to correct the issue. Starting with myself and my household.

I don't see associating myself with a group who has members calling for and taking the lives of others, let alone LEO, as a good step in the process.

If you feel like there are inadequate programs, why not get involved in the community or school board rather than blocking streets and pointing fingers at someone for causing your issues? Whether it is true or not.
 
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Ocoka

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Where are the parents? They are in Prison for non-violent drug sentences that carry mandatory minimum sentences.

The kids are raised by their grandmothers. While it's true that some parents are serving mandatory sentences for drugs, many are in prison for the violent crimes that go hand-in-hand with the drug trade; revenge, robbery, territory. And many of the parents are dead, victims of drug and gang violence perpetrated by members of their own race.

Speaking of drugs, in the Tampa/St Petersburg community there are many examples of disadvantaged teens from the 'hood being picked up a dozen or so times on drug charges before they ever have to do any hard time.
 
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Kraut783

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Where are the parents? They are in Prison for non-violent drug sentences that carry mandatory minimum sentences.
That is way too broad of a statement to even make, I understand your point...but that's like me saying the parents are in prison for committing murder, aggravated robbery, sexual assault and other felony offenses that don't have anything to do with drugs.
 
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#17
That is way too broad of a statement to even make, I understand your point...but that's like me saying the parents are in prison for committing murder, aggravated robbery, sexual assault and other felony offenses that don't have anything to do with drugs.
Yeah like Ocoka one did right after me? This whole thread is full of generalizations. You are right though.
 

Red Flag 1

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That is way too broad of a statement to even make, I understand your point...but that's like me saying the parents are in prison for committing murder, aggravated robbery, sexual assault and other felony offenses that don't have anything to do with drugs.
It is starting as early as middle schools now. Peer pressure, wanting to "fit it" can come down to taking a few Vicoden, or Xanax, etc., that a friend took from home. Then a few more kids bring other stuff from home, and eventually you hook up with someone with plenty of stuff to sell. Once you reach that point, the big slide down begins. This can happen with both parents working but in the home. There is no social strata that is immune.
 
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Kraut783

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heh, I didn't see Ocoka post, think I was writing my response at the same time.

Your right to a point....there are plenty of persons of all races in prison for n0n-violent drug crimes.

He's right to a point....there are plenty of persons of all races in prison for violent crimes.

But in a country as diverse as ours.....we can't generalize. Hell, Wyoming had 4 Police shootings in 2015...4...just amazing to me.
 
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#20
heh, I didn't see Ocoka post, think I was writing my response at the same time.

Your right to a point....there are plenty of persons of all races in prison for n0n-violent drug crimes.

He's right to a point....there are plenty of persons of all races in prison for violent crimes.

But in a country as diverse as ours.....we can't generalize. Hell, Wyoming had 4 Police shootings in 2015...4...just amazing to me.
You have to admit that our prison population would be much more representative of the overall population if non-violen drug offenses were prosecuted differently. Mandatory sentencing disproportionately affects minorities particularly blacks. That is one of my biggest gripes with our system today.
 
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