Soldier Shot During Special Forces Training Event After Live Ammo Mixed in with Blanks

[The Quartermaster]

That's a lot of heads on pike about to happen. They would literally shake us down before blank fires was going to happen just to make sure. Complete with signed checklists that was witnessed and signed for as well.

Soldier Shot During Special Forces Training Event After Live Ammo Mixed in with Blanks

 

[Marauder06]

At an ROTC FTC in my last year of college, someone passed out a box of live 5.56 that got mixed in with blanks. It was late. It was dark. We were all super tired. I was part of the cadet cadre and knew nothing about it until an underclass cadet who was prior service noticed. We when white-light and got it all sorted out before anyone got hurt. I was pretty mad at our active duty cadre for letting it happen. I was even more miffed that they didn't seem to think it was a big deal.

At Infantry OBC one of my roommates sent his blank adaptor downrange because he scooped up a live round and loaded it into his magazine. It was dark. It was late. We were all super tired... you get the picture. We used the same lanes for dry-blank-live, day and night. During the night IIRC he was in the support by fire position, they passed out blanks, he dropped some of them on the ground, feeling around for them in the dark he loaded up a live round that had been left there from a previous iteration and that was that. No injuries.

This was the same roommate who had a smoke grenade go off in his lap inside a helo because the pin got snagged on either his own equipment or the seat belt. Minor burn injuries to him (it was winter and he had lots of clothing on). Fortunately the helo was on the ground when it happened.

The point it, there is huge potential for this kind of thing to happen, especially if you're doing multiple dry/blank/live iterations and people aren't constantly checking to make sure they didn't accidentally load something up that they shouldn't have.

 

[Teufel]

We do a full line out and turn in all weapons between live fire and blank fire events. Mixing blanks and live rounds is a bad idea. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Box]

I'd almost call this a catastrophic leadership failure...
...but "we" don't really do the type of leadership that prevents this shit anymore

This soldier's immediate supervisor should be forced to explain to the family how "accidents happen"
...but I'm pretty sure the response will just be that accidents happen.

Disgraceful and tragic

 

[Kraut783]

Not using a blank adaptor with blanks?

 

[Dame]

I'd almost call this a catastrophic leadership failure...
...but "we" don't really do the type of leadership that prevents this shit anymore

This soldier's immediate supervisor should be forced to explain to the family how "accidents happen"
...but I'm pretty sure the response will just be that accidents happen.

Disgraceful and tragic

But the good news is, he is recovering.

The injured soldier was in stable condition and recovering at Madigan Army Medical Center.

 

[ThunderHorse]

NGL, at least in the units I've been in, we never had live ammo draw on a day we had blanks for. These were all generally separated by days at gunnery and dismounted training. So when I see this I always wonder how. But knowing it was SF, to be honest, it's clear to me that the same rules don't seem to apply to special people. Maybe that's a cynical view.

 

[Box]

But knowing it was SF, to be honest, it's clear to me that the same rules don't seem to apply to special people. Maybe that's a cynical view.

That is the ENTIRE problem here.
It isn't cynical when its true.

"my People" THINK that the rules dont apply to them - then they show their ass - then they wonder why they cant shake the 'rogue soldier' persona - or why so many conventional types think we are just over rated cowboys...

I'm not going to hold my breath for a stack of relief for cause paper work to surface.

 

[Devildoc]

We had cut corners on some things, but not THAT thing. Glad the guy is OK.

 

[AWP]

That is the ENTIRE problem here.
It isn't cynical when its true.

"my People" THINK that the rules dont apply to them - then they show their ass - then they wonder why they cant shake the 'rogue soldier' persona - or why so many conventional types think we are just over rated cowboys...

I'm not going to hold my breath for a stack of relief for cause paper work to surface.

I joined my SF Support Co. in '93 and at some point in the first few months helmets were discussed... I remember the topic, not the context. Anyway, the guys started grousing, including our two new shiny 18E's doing their FOB time before going to a team, that the only time you should wear a helmet is when jumping. "Now we have to wear them on the range because some idiot was shot in the head."*

Some idiot was shot in the head.

Even as a start struck FNG I was thinking WTF is going on here. Sure enough, the next time we went to the range the "old" guys were still hung up on wearing helmets.

* Some conventional unit the state, not the SF BN.

 

[Devildoc]

I joined my SF Support Co. in '93 and at some point in the first few months helmets were discussed... I remember the topic, not the context. Anyway, the guys started grousing, including our two new shiny 18E's doing their FOB time before going to a team, that the only time you should wear a helmet is when jumping. "Now we have to wear them on the range because some idiot was shot in the head."*

Sure enough, the next time we went to the range the "old" guys were still hung up on wearing helmets.

This is a good example of drift... complacence over time because nothing bad happens, but then it does.

 

[Gunz]

Mixing blanks and live rounds is a bad idea. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Box]

Gunz - I nominate you for Dark Overlord of the Galactic Empire for that meme.

I bow to your superior meme-ery

 

[Box]

"Now we have to wear them on the range because some idiot was shot in the head."*

Some idiot was shot in the head.

This is why I hate "SF guyz". This is why my time as an AOB SGM was so overwhelmingly riddled with me scratching my head in disbelief at the things some of my news guys would ask me.

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

I thought the blank adapter would prevent a round coming out....if it was tightened properly.

I never saw blanks and live rounds during the same month when I was in. We only ever used blanks at Basic and NTC. We would have MILES on and 0 blanks in the field...

 

[AWP]

View attachment 44641

I think you just outscored Box's B-52 response elsewhere.

 

[Totentanz]

View attachment 44641

Randy is considering adopting you into the Savage family for that…

 

[GOTWA]

This is a good example of drift... complacence over time because nothing bad happens, but then it does.

Another term is "normalization of deviance" and it was coined by Diane Vaughan during the investigations to the Columbia and Challenger Shuttle disasters. If you have some time, I do recommend some of her publications. My White Collar Crime class in college was one of the best courses I took during my undergrad.

"It's the cost of doing business..."

 

[Devildoc]

Another term is "normalization of deviance" and it was coined by Diane Vaughan during the investigations to the Columbia and Challenger Shuttle disasters. If you have some time, I do recommend some of her publications. My White Collar Crime class in college was one of the best courses I took during my undergrad.

"It's the cost of doing business..."

Yep, familiar. I cited her stuff a lot in grad school.

 

[amlove21]

I know the team this happened to personally. There are a lot more things that are going to come out, so I would just hold your horses for a bit. Investigation is ongoing.

If it wasn't for the 18D responding to this terrible accident with minimal gear and holding the high standards of military medicine, the young man in question would be dead and not projected to return to duty.