Knife sharpening techniques for all
- Thread starter x SF med
- Start date
I just looked at it.... it makes me wary that they have their own grit numbering system vs Chosera and Shapton which use gemological Assn grading for grit numbering. Plus there are a LOT of caveats and 'tricks' on the website for using the system.
I was at the local gun store down the street (Bitterroot Trading Post, walking distance, bummer...) and found a nice stone... a Norton 2 sided (grey/orange, 6") for $22.... It may be a gift for somebody, or may go into my GFOD bag... but $22, I couldn't pass it up. the nice thing about the Norton manufactured stones, you ask? You can use any lifting agent you desire... water, oil or detergent based...
Red Flag 1
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2010
- Messages
- 7,588
Just the name, Bitterroot Trading Post would be enough to get me in the door.
They handle the range access for the Local range... isn't it horrible that the cost to join the 'Rifle Club' is $15/yr for access to the 600m rifle, shot gun and pistol range? I need to get out there... I was sick the day LL and the Ride to Valhalla guys went out and used up my targets and a chunk of my ammo for pistol practice.
I should work with the guys at Bitterroot to get a better knife selection though... but my choices may be a little pricey for the area.
Red Flag 1
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2010
- Messages
- 7,588
I do think your knowing eye for the bladed steel will be something they are not used to. In particular with the outrageous membership fees they're askin'.
Last edited:
Excellent thread and very informative!
Barbarian
Unverified
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 75
Apologies for the absence. Let's get back to it.
Stone Care
I prefer to use Norton stones because they are very high quality. I'm in no way affiliated with Norton/St. Gobain, btw. I use "Crystolon" (carborundum) coarse and medium stones, and India fine stones because they remove steel efficiently, but at a rate that is controllable and conducive to precision, however they require some maintenance.
Carborundum and India stones are friable. This means that as they're used, the crystals on the surface of the stones break away and expose the new, sharp ones underneath. This is a good thing, but it means that the surface of the stone will change shape with use, and THAT is not good, obviously. So, to remedy this, you have to grind the stone down flat.
Here is a vid of a gent flattening the stones he uses to sharpen woodworking tools.
I have and sometimes do use this method, and it works pretty well. Most folks already have the requisite items lying around.
Be sure to use coarse paper, like 100 or 120 grit when truing your stones this way, or you'll be old and grey by the time you're finished.
More to follow. Questions welcome.
Stone Care
I prefer to use Norton stones because they are very high quality. I'm in no way affiliated with Norton/St. Gobain, btw. I use "Crystolon" (carborundum) coarse and medium stones, and India fine stones because they remove steel efficiently, but at a rate that is controllable and conducive to precision, however they require some maintenance.
Carborundum and India stones are friable. This means that as they're used, the crystals on the surface of the stones break away and expose the new, sharp ones underneath. This is a good thing, but it means that the surface of the stone will change shape with use, and THAT is not good, obviously. So, to remedy this, you have to grind the stone down flat.
Here is a vid of a gent flattening the stones he uses to sharpen woodworking tools.
I have and sometimes do use this method, and it works pretty well. Most folks already have the requisite items lying around.
Be sure to use coarse paper, like 100 or 120 grit when truing your stones this way, or you'll be old and grey by the time you're finished.
More to follow. Questions welcome.
Barbarian
Unverified
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 75
The fellow in the above video mentioned using a straight edge and a light to judge the flatness of your stone, but what he didn't mention was using a pencil. Before flattening your stone, draw a grid on the surface of your sharpening stone using a regular old pencil. As you grind away the higher areas of your stone's surface, the pencil lines will help you see which areas of your stone are making contact with the flattening abrasive. I'd like to note that I have used a paint marker for this instead of a pencil. It stays put better, but sometimes requires you to take a bit more of your stone off. You may not mind. I went back to pencil, though.
Another tool for truing the surface of your stones is the flattening stone. It is (usually) a carborundum abrasive with a stronger binding agent than that used in sharpening stones. The surface is flat with deep grooves in it to allow excess slurry to escape. I use this more often than the sandpaper method. It takes roughly the same amount of time but saves you from going through a bunch of sandpaper.
Norton Flattening Stone for Waterstones, 3/4" x 3" x 9" in plastic case: Sharpening Stones: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
The methodology is pretty well the same. Lube your stones up with your preferred lifting agent, and grind the stones together. (Norton suggests you grind the sharpening stone down against the flattening stone. I do the opposite because I have a "tri-stone" setup. It still works well. Try to use the entire surface of the flattening stone so it stays flat longer. Once the flattening stone loses its shape, after a few....... flattenings, you'll have to flatten IT.
Another tool for truing the surface of your stones is the flattening stone. It is (usually) a carborundum abrasive with a stronger binding agent than that used in sharpening stones. The surface is flat with deep grooves in it to allow excess slurry to escape. I use this more often than the sandpaper method. It takes roughly the same amount of time but saves you from going through a bunch of sandpaper.
Norton Flattening Stone for Waterstones, 3/4" x 3" x 9" in plastic case: Sharpening Stones: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
The methodology is pretty well the same. Lube your stones up with your preferred lifting agent, and grind the stones together. (Norton suggests you grind the sharpening stone down against the flattening stone. I do the opposite because I have a "tri-stone" setup. It still works well. Try to use the entire surface of the flattening stone so it stays flat longer. Once the flattening stone loses its shape, after a few....... flattenings, you'll have to flatten IT.
As @Barbarian has noted, a flat stone is a good stone - except for multiple recurve blades - a puck or stick may be required to follow the original grind lines properly without dulling already sharp edges - but that's an issue for later.
I too am a fan of the Norton Crystallon stones - I use a grey/orange (Med/Fine, 600/800 grit - with food/pharmacopeia grade mineral oil for lifting) two faced stone for edging, then a Suehiro 1200 grit manufactured waterstone for initial polish, then finish on a bench strop impregnated with green (1800 or 2000 grit) polishing compound. Keep some unfinished poplar, pine or other softwood around to de-burr the edge too.
Make or buy a good, stable, bullet proof stand for your initial cutting stones. You use more pressure on them than in polishing, and it gets you enough stand off that you are able to keep a good angle on the stone.
Use the whole face of the stones for sharpening/polishing - better wear patterns and better accuracy for keeping to the angles.
Don't worry about the slurry, even if it's black, as it builds it ends up being the same grit as the friable material and makes your job easier.
Clean and inspect your stones regularly - especially if you've sharpened a knife of suspicious quality (you'll know, it won't get a good edge, no matter how hard you work - mild steel or large grain 'cheap' steel are the main culprits. Use different stones for super hard tool steels like milling blades, they will need much more maintenance.
Don't discount the use of diamond impregnated sharpeners - but buy very high quality ones - and only use them for recutting edges, tips and shaping - they take off a LOT of steel and leave a saw edge that can be a bear to sharpen out and polish, especially on large grain loose matrix steels.
Invest in a quality magnifier or two or three - a couple of magnifying glasses in various powers, and I like a jeweler's loupe in 10x and 15x. Next purchase is a jeweler's/machinists lighted work magnifier.
Know your tools, do not lend them out unless you confident that the borrower knows what the deal is - or can pay to replace anything that gets damaged - a lot of people balk and scream "You want me to pay HOW much for a friggin rock?" ..at which point you are justified punching them in the face. (example - $50-$100 is a good median range for quality carborundum stones, high quality Japanese water stones only go up from the high end). You can also remind that person what they paid for the adjustable locking torque wrench they just bought... and will use twice a year, maybe.
While on 'vacation' I was sharpening 3-5 knives a day for others... various qualities, and got results from damn near perfect to this crap won't hold an edge to my standard. Remind people of this fact - 'presentation' knives are generally not working tools, they're pretty, but leave them on the walls, because they will not hold an edge ( unless the presenter and the recipient are knife geeks). Let people know issues right after your initial inspection of the blade as discussed earlier in the thread, and temper their expectations then.
And back to the knifemaker....
I too am a fan of the Norton Crystallon stones - I use a grey/orange (Med/Fine, 600/800 grit - with food/pharmacopeia grade mineral oil for lifting) two faced stone for edging, then a Suehiro 1200 grit manufactured waterstone for initial polish, then finish on a bench strop impregnated with green (1800 or 2000 grit) polishing compound. Keep some unfinished poplar, pine or other softwood around to de-burr the edge too.
Make or buy a good, stable, bullet proof stand for your initial cutting stones. You use more pressure on them than in polishing, and it gets you enough stand off that you are able to keep a good angle on the stone.
Use the whole face of the stones for sharpening/polishing - better wear patterns and better accuracy for keeping to the angles.
Don't worry about the slurry, even if it's black, as it builds it ends up being the same grit as the friable material and makes your job easier.
Clean and inspect your stones regularly - especially if you've sharpened a knife of suspicious quality (you'll know, it won't get a good edge, no matter how hard you work - mild steel or large grain 'cheap' steel are the main culprits. Use different stones for super hard tool steels like milling blades, they will need much more maintenance.
Don't discount the use of diamond impregnated sharpeners - but buy very high quality ones - and only use them for recutting edges, tips and shaping - they take off a LOT of steel and leave a saw edge that can be a bear to sharpen out and polish, especially on large grain loose matrix steels.
Invest in a quality magnifier or two or three - a couple of magnifying glasses in various powers, and I like a jeweler's loupe in 10x and 15x. Next purchase is a jeweler's/machinists lighted work magnifier.
Know your tools, do not lend them out unless you confident that the borrower knows what the deal is - or can pay to replace anything that gets damaged - a lot of people balk and scream "You want me to pay HOW much for a friggin rock?" ..at which point you are justified punching them in the face. (example - $50-$100 is a good median range for quality carborundum stones, high quality Japanese water stones only go up from the high end). You can also remind that person what they paid for the adjustable locking torque wrench they just bought... and will use twice a year, maybe.
While on 'vacation' I was sharpening 3-5 knives a day for others... various qualities, and got results from damn near perfect to this crap won't hold an edge to my standard. Remind people of this fact - 'presentation' knives are generally not working tools, they're pretty, but leave them on the walls, because they will not hold an edge ( unless the presenter and the recipient are knife geeks). Let people know issues right after your initial inspection of the blade as discussed earlier in the thread, and temper their expectations then.
And back to the knifemaker....
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2012
- Messages
- 12,524
@Barbarian @x SF med (and anyone else who knows a thing or two about knives)
What is the story on Randall knives?
I mentioned in another thread that I am beginning to declutter my life and replace multiple things with "one" of great quality. A friend is selling his NIB Randall #28 Woodsman Knife and I am debating. He is asking $500...(acknowledging the higher price since they sell new for $450 but there is a near 5 year wait)
Thoughts?
This is a Randall #28 Woodsman with a 4.5 inch blade and green Micarta scales.
From Randall's description:
"Drop point hunter blade. Full tang handle construction. 4 1/4″ handle length. Single brass hilt. Green micarta handle material (black micarta available). Border patrol shape. Top of blade notched for thumb placement. Wrist thong with brass ferrule. Sturdy overall construction. Excellent skinning and outdoors knife."
BLADE LENGTH: 4.5"
BLADE STOCK: 3/16” stainless steel
HANDLE SHAPE: Border Patrol
HANDLE MATERIAL: Micarta
HILT STYLE: Standard Single
WEIGHT: 8 oz.
What is the story on Randall knives?
I mentioned in another thread that I am beginning to declutter my life and replace multiple things with "one" of great quality. A friend is selling his NIB Randall #28 Woodsman Knife and I am debating. He is asking $500...(acknowledging the higher price since they sell new for $450 but there is a near 5 year wait)
Thoughts?
This is a Randall #28 Woodsman with a 4.5 inch blade and green Micarta scales.
From Randall's description:
"Drop point hunter blade. Full tang handle construction. 4 1/4″ handle length. Single brass hilt. Green micarta handle material (black micarta available). Border patrol shape. Top of blade notched for thumb placement. Wrist thong with brass ferrule. Sturdy overall construction. Excellent skinning and outdoors knife."
BLADE LENGTH: 4.5"
BLADE STOCK: 3/16” stainless steel
HANDLE SHAPE: Border Patrol
HANDLE MATERIAL: Micarta
HILT STYLE: Standard Single
WEIGHT: 8 oz.
A Randall is an investment in a true high quality knife. This one is a modified Scandinaian grind, so sharpening/honing will be easy with the right tools at home or in the field. You will want one small modification on the knife... wrap the handle with leather or something like it... polished micarta can get very very slick when wet or bloody.
Buy it. If you don't like it, give it to me as a Christmas gift... I'll take it, gladly and do a little happy dance, well, a big happy dance, for hours.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2012
- Messages
- 12,524
I love LOVE when a post can actually make me laugh-out-loud! Because he's a friend, I'm trying to talk him down from the $500 to something a bit more reasonable.
I have the Spartan-Harsey Mod I, serial number very low of a small run (250) and signed by all 3 of the principals involved in the evolution of the knife.... it was not an inexpensive knife, it is now worth more used than I paid for it... a LOT more... Randalls are the same.
glad to be of service.... but.... don't rid yourself of anything unless you check the value and collectability of the knife, you could be shooting yourself in the foot financially.
Red Flag 1
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2010
- Messages
- 7,588
Than knife, could not have had a better gurdian.
Barbarian
Unverified
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 75
Lol. Written in the night sky, I believe it was.
Similar threads
