The Facts and the Danger Behind the BLM Movement

[moobob]

You have to admit that our prison population would be much more representative of the overall population if non-violen drug offenses were prosecuted differently. Mandatory sentencing disproportionately affects minorities particularly blacks. That is one of my biggest gripes with our system today.

Drugs should be legalized, but even if they were, there is too much of a culture of acceptance of crime in inner cities. Too much shit like this: Homeowner Shoots, Kills Teen Burglary Suspect

So, massive reforms in drug laws will probably reduce prison populations and crime, to an extent, but many people will move onto other illegal hustles...

As for becoming more representative of the overall population, I really doubt that.

 

[TLDR20]

Drugs should be legalized, but even if they were, there is too much of a culture of acceptance of crime in inner cities. Too much shit like this: Homeowner Shoots, Kills Teen Burglary Suspect

So, massive reforms in drug laws will probably reduce prison populations and crime, to an extent, but many people will move onto other illegal hustles...

As for becoming more representative of the overall population, I really doubt that.

A quarter of all those in prison are there for drug offenses. That is a quarter of certain communities. Imagine all that is lost. Imagine if that creativity was being pumped into helping their communities.

Bureau of Justice Statistics, Drugs and Crime Facts: Drug Use and Crime

Or instead of trying and hoping, we can just keep writing them off and imprisoning them. Basically saying fuck it, they are just going to do some other criminal thing...

 

[RackMaster]

I think what's being missed in all this, is not the drugs, not the punishment but the underlying root causes. Poverty is probably the #1 cause of all this. Until we figure that out, nothing else will work.

 

[Marine0311]

I agree with TLDR that drugs should not be a criminal issue. I think it should all be legalized and taxed, and the chips will fall where they may. That being said, they're not currently legal, so I have zero sympathy for people who end up in prison multiple times, or for longer than they believe they should be, because of a drug charge.

I disagree. Keep them all illegal but change the punishments and attack the root causes.

 

[TLDR20]

I think what's being missed in all this, is not the drugs, not the punishment but the underlying root causes. Poverty is probably the #1 cause of all this. Until we figure that out, nothing else will work.

Causing more people to be able to work by not adding criminal records to them will help keep people from poverty. Then their kids will be better off, which will fight poverty even more.

 

[RackMaster]

Causing more people to be able to work by not adding criminal records to them will help keep people from poverty. Then their kids will be better off, which will fight poverty even more.

Not if there's no meaningful full-time jobs for them. Which won't exist if the area is full of crime. A catch 22.

 

[TLDR20]

Not if there's no meaningful full-time jobs for them. Which won't exist if the area is full of crime. A catch 22.

Man. It is only a catch 22 if you blow it off as if it is. Recently cities like Durham, Baltimore, and Burroughs in other large cities are making a huge resurgence because the cities incentivize investment in formerly bad areas. Parts of Durham are now completely unrecognizable from 10 years ago.

 

[Brill]

A quarter of all those in prison are there for drug offenses. That is a quarter of certain communities. Imagine all that is lost. Imagine if that creativity was being pumped into helping their communities.

Bureau of Justice Statistics, Drugs and Crime Facts: Drug Use and Crime

Or instead of trying and hoping, we can just keep writing them off and imprisoning them. Basically saying fuck it, they are just going to do some other criminal thing...

Why don't people in those communities just stop using illegal drugs and follow the law? Imagine what those communities could accomplish on their own if they were just decided to follow the drug laws just like the vast majority of US.

 

[Etype]

I agree with TLDR that drugs should not be a criminal issue. I think it should all be legalized and taxed, and the chips will fall where they may. That being said, they're not currently legal, so I have zero sympathy for people who end up in prison multiple times, or for longer than they believe they should be, because of a drug charge.

You say that until someone murders your wife for $20.

$20 that they need to buy their LEGAL cocaine that they are addicted to.

I think what's being missed in all this, is not the drugs, not the punishment but the underlying root causes. Poverty is probably the #1 cause of all this. Until we figure that out, nothing else will work.

Poverty makes people do drugs??? That's ridiculous.

A culture of habitual drug use may cause poverty, but poverty does not cause drug use.

 

[Brill]

Poverty makes people do drugs??? That's ridiculous.

A culture of habitual drug use may cause poverty, but poverty does not cause drug use.

Conversely, money makes people not do drugs! Why are so many wealthy "stars" such train wrecks?

 

[TLDR20]

Why don't people in those communities just stop using illegal drugs and follow the law? Imagine what those communities could accomplish on their own if they were just decided to follow the drug laws just like the vast majority of US.

Why didn't people stop drinking during prohibition?

 

[RackMaster]

Poverty makes people do drugs??? That's ridiculous.

A culture of habitual drug use may cause poverty, but poverty does not cause drug use.

No poverty itself doesn't, it does create the "perfect storm" for increased access/use. But this is more than habitual drug use, it's a mental health problem with many outlying aggrevating causes. And we're talking all drugs, alcohol included. Lower economic status reduces access to adequate health care, especially mental health care. Here in Canada the land of "free" medical care, we still pay out of pocket for mental health; either directly or through third party insurance. Cheaper to dull the pain with cheap drugs. Alcohol and stolen prescription drugs probably the most common.

Man. It is only a catch 22 if you blow it off as if it is. Recently cities like Durham, Baltimore, and Burroughs in other large cities are making a huge resurgence because the cities incentivize investment in formerly bad areas. Parts of Durham are now completely unrecognizable from 10 years ago.

What other factors created the environment for investment? Increased policing, forcing community standards on landowners, etc?

 

[Red Flag 1]

Poverty makes people do drugs??? That's ridiculous.

A culture of habitual drug use may cause poverty, but poverty does not cause drug use.

Yeah, there is no socioeconomic level that is immune. It will have an end point of poverty, as you have pointed out.

If at midnight tonight, all drug use would be allowed without consequent, what would it change? It would reduce detention and incarceration for having drugs, but other things will continue. With free and legal drug use, there would be a big hit in terms of employability. Addicts will continue to chase the high, and more folks would show up to work under the influence. It would take years to create a physician, not government, run programs to get addicts into a position where they could drive a car, and hold down a job. There would still be people who would resort to crime to purchase the now legal drugs. In the end, I think you would see addicts in jail/prison for drug related crimes. The big difference would be the elimination of the middle man, the drug dealers. I think with legalized drug use, there will probably be more users. We are not in a position to deal with the legalization of drugs like Heroin, and Cocaine. Most likely, the government would step in, and tax the hell out of the now legal drugs. There would have to be facilities in place and staffed to deal medically with woes that legal drug use would generate. My guess is that it would take a good five or more years to be in a position to deal with legalization of drugs.

My $.02.

 

[CDG]

You say that until someone murders your wife for $20.

$20 that they need to buy their LEGAL cocaine that they are addicted to.

This doesn't even make sense. Addicts commit crimes now to get drugs. People get shot over shoes and gaming consoles. How many new addicts do you really think the legalization of drugs will create? Now, of those, how many are also going to be willing to commit murder for it? This is a ridiculous analogy.

 

[Brill]

Why didn't people stop drinking during prohibition?

I don't understand the parallel...well, maybe drink destroyed the Irish community but overall, I'm picking up what you're putting down.

I don't think following the law presents an undue burden on society or even just a specific group of people.

 

[Red Flag 1]

This doesn't even make sense. Addicts commit crimes now to get drugs. People get shot over shoes and gaming consoles. How many new addicts do you really think the legalization of drugs will create? Now, of those, how many are also going to be willing to commit murder for it? This is a ridiculous analogy.

I'm willing to bet that the number of addicts will remain close to what it is today. Legal or not, the drugs will cost something, mostly in taxes would be my bet. Drug related crimes will continue. Pharmaceutical companies will make a killing in profits. One thing that will change, is treating chronic pain patients. There is a difference between drug dependent, and drug addicted; there may where things get a little fuzzy for some folks.

 

[TLDR20]

You say that until someone murders your wife for $20.

$20 that they need to buy their LEGAL cocaine that they are addicted to.

What?

I don't understand the parallel...well, maybe drink destroyed the Irish community but overall, I'm picking up what you're putting down.

I don't think following the law presents an undue burden on society or even just a specific group of people.

My point is that legislating morality doesn't work. Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking, but it made non-criminals into criminals. Making prostitution drugs, etc illegal doesn't stop it from happening, but it does transfer the control of those vices to people who shouldn't have it.

 

[Etype]

This doesn't even make sense. Addicts commit crimes now to get drugs. People get shot over shoes and gaming consoles. How many new addicts do you really think the legalization of drugs will create? Now, of those, how many are also going to be willing to commit murder for it? This is a ridiculous analogy.

Legalizing drugs would grossly increase the number addicted to them, which would increase the related crime.

 

[Kraut783]

I will be curious how Colorado and Washington State deal with legalization of marijuana. Crime stats, issues, problems, what worked, what didn't work....etc

 

[Etype]

What?



My point is that legislating morality doesn't work. Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking, but it made non-criminals into criminals. Making prostitution drugs, etc illegal doesn't stop it from happening, but it does transfer the control of those vices to people who shouldn't have it.

Practically every civilized nation on earth realizes that drugs are bad, and should be prohibited by law.

Only the American liberal and other fringe groups think they are privy to some sort of higher knowledge on how to counter their negatives post legalization.